Hi everyone,
I'm new to this forum and have read a lot of your political discussions lately. What i've noticed is that no one have before mentioned anything about China, and its current political stance.

Everyone seems to be talking about the Western world, and arabs etc (the usual), but everyone has failed to realise the influence that China has on international affairs. I dont know if it's simply the local media, here in Australia, but we tend not to hear of any political stances that China have on issues such as terrorism etc.

China is, undeniably, the new superpower. With a ground army millions of men strong, it is far larger than any other country on the planet. It would be stupid to simply bypass the views and opinions of such an influential country.

Here, we dont hear about China's stance on terrorism, or how they plan to join forces with the Americans to rid this planet of lunatic extremists. Nor do we hear that China is a target for terrorists, post S11.

The question is, can we learn a lesson from the stance taken by China on this matter? I believe so.

China has managed to keep itself far from the issue, and therefore protect its people from acts of terrorism. Is this not a more effective policy than spending billions on national security, without suppressing the threat of attack?? Of course it is.

Australia used to be a country of peace, something like Switzerland I'd say, but now I too live in a country where we see ourselves on a terrorists hitlist. Why??? Simply because our leaders messed in something they shouldnt mess with. Opened their mouths against things they shouldnt have. Australia has involved themselves in an issue which once did not involve themselves, and subsequently have opened themselves to the threat of terrorist strikes. Yes, we should learn a thing or two from China.

Perhaps there is more to it than we think.......

Lets also remember what happened in Belgrade, 1999. No less than 3 missles struck the Chinese embassy, killing many, including Chinese nationals. Is it because of this that China is keeping quiet on this whole terrorism issue? That China is not taking sides of the US?

Are relations between China and America so strained, because of this event in Belgrade, that peace between these nations is so strained that even the slightest mishap could push these nations to war. War which will no doubt bring conflict to the shores of america, and destroy both countries, if not the world.

This bombing has no doubt been forgotten by most, if not all. Perhaps this is even the first time you have heard of such a thing happening. But i believe that this has caused America to open itself to an even greater threat than psychotic extremists. It has lost the ally in China, if not created an enemy.

A bad move, in my view.

Your views and comments are welcome.

-Dupz-

There is no doubt about the emerging chinese superpower.
The embryo's been in the oven for a while now. I think I've talked about this before but I'm not sure if it was on this forum or not.

Well I think we can all saftly assume that china is quite pissed off with the US. The Taiwan issue alone is enough. Then the embessy bombing which was no accident.

Right now china's primary concern is building it's economy. It will smile at anyone and try to solve it's conflicts as diplomatically as possible. Even the Taiwan issue with the US. They basically don't want to get into any situation to compromise their economy.

BUT! At some point in time the Chinese superpower will mature and it will balance the world power scale again. After the colapse of the soviet union there's only been a single super power which seems to think it can fuck with anyone it likes. So I for one can't wait for scale tio be balanced again.

Hasta la victoria!

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Courageous, untroubled, mocking and violent; that is what Wisdom wants us to be. Wisdom is a woman, and loves only a warrior.
--Friedrich Nietzsche

Well, time to learn Chinese then
I might do it really, heared it's not too hard, at least the official language, mandarin (as there are HUNDREDS of different dialects within the country).

I, too, believe that China is on its way to become the "antithesis" to the US superpower, forming a symmetric balance. Might lead us back to the days of Cold war, but on the other hand it might also bring stability and consequently bring Terrorism down. OR, and that would be the worst case scenario, China could ally WITH the terrorists, but this seems very unlikely once u've realized Islamist Terrorism is NOT primarily fighting the US foreign policy, or Israel "occupation" but seeks to force the ENTIRE western world (and that includes China as well) to follow their fascistic sick ideology of Islamist Fundamentalism. In fact its not even about religion, but about power and simple madness, hiding behind the "war of liberation" mask. China itself has problems with extremist Muslims in the northern part of the country. (hey! Have u noticed that we've got no single Chinese TA? ). From what I've heared the Cinese have a quite anti-western mentality, maybe as a traumatic response to the European colonisation and the communist era under Mao-tse. Eventually, as the'yre opening themselves to capitalist globalisation they'll have to colaborate with Europe and the US.

"Why??? Simply because our leaders messed in something they shouldnt mess with. Opened their mouths against things they shouldnt have. Australia has involved themselves in an issue which once did not involve themselves, and subsequently have opened themselves to the threat of terrorist strikes."

Now I dont wanna put into this thread another Arab Terrorism-discussion but I think u're making a huge mistake by saying the things u say. By doing that you give up to terrorists and justify their actions. Think about it: WhatEVER your PM has said or not, what does that have to do with tourists (of course, the majority was Australian) getting slaughtered in a DISCO!? If u give up and APOLOGIZE after u've been attacked ure lost. Terrorists will smile and keep going as they see who they're dealing with. For f'ck's sake, this is NOT about the US and there wars in point x or their embargos in point y! Although I hardly ever agree with Bush his simple doctrine of "either WITH or without us" couldnt be more true. If u feel uneasy with being "cooperating with Bush" imagine the aforementioned phrase put differently: Either in favour or AGAINST Terrorism.

Oh and btw. its not as if China hasn't been a "superpower" in the past! In fact it was the first empire to undergo first indusrialisation, invent gunpoweder, the compass, leading maritime trade in the Indian ocean, conquering vast areas and having first huge cosmopolitan cities.

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"Those are my principles, if you don't like them... well, I have others.”

yeah, it has been mentioned quite often that China is an emerging superpower, i'd give it about 20-25 yrs. before it reaches the status of the former USSR (in terms of how threatening it is)

quote:

Originally posted by Dupz Australia used to be a country of peace, something like Switzerland I'd say, but now I too live in a country where we see ourselves on a terrorists hitlist. Why??? Simply because our leaders messed in something they shouldnt mess with.

all evil needs to succeed is for good men to stand idley by and do nothing to stop it.

if everyone took china's stance of 'do nothing', then the problem certainly would not go away, it would manifest itself until it became near impossible to stop.

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c o n : f u s e d

quote:

Originally posted by sifntj0r all evil needs to succeed is for good men to stand idley by and do nothing to stop it. if everyone took china's stance of 'do nothing', then the problem certainly would not go away, it would manifest itself until it became near impossible to stop.

If we all took this stance of "do nothing" then we wouldnt be in this mess in the first place...
Because of this "do something" stance we see ourselves under threat. It's because of this stance that these terrorists are RETALIATING to our actions...
Let me ask, my friend... How safe do you feel living in Australia now?? I live in melbourne, and now fear going to Crown Casino, or going to the observation deck in the Rialto with my girlfriend.. all because of this terrorist threat.
I used to be able to go into the city without this fear in me.... but now i see a different story, all because of this "do something" stance.
For terrorism to succeed, by definition, is to create terror/fear. I fear, like millions of others. Therefore terrorism has succeeded.

China on the otherhand does not fear. I'd probably feel safer living in Shanghai rather than Melbourne now, and you cant deny that because of their "do nothing" stance they now live their lives with much less fear than we do.
I envy the life i once used to live in Australia.. now i feel like we're the 53rd (or something) state of the USA.

although certianly as of late china has been very quite and neutral in the international scope but inside the definitly do not take a "do nothing" approach. the government has an obsession to stay and power and does everything it can to put down any revolt from happening. cases include its actions in tibet, northern china, Tiaman square incedent and persicutions of many groups and orginizations.
China has recently had a silent transfer of power from president to president and slowly is opening its market to the outside world and moving more and more away from communism but it still has a stranglehold on citizen's freedoms of speech.

Dupz, i find that your views are wrong in the sense the if we all adopt a "do nothing" policy there will be no control over evildoers.
do humans commit murder because of the presense of a police force or do we have a police force because humans commit murder? rhetorical question and i think it proves the point

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If God is the answer, it must have been a very stupid question.

China is an interesting situation, but it is far from being a superpower in any terms for at least the next 20-50 years. By then hopefully the war of terrorism will be at an end, and the US if needed may be able to renew a cold war to victory with China, though I see this as a very rare occurence.

One must understand why the USA is currently a super power now, it is not the military size alone but the 'public good' (an economic term meaning a service or benifit you are awarded for 'free' at the expense of another) it utilizes as the worlds Hegemonic power. The war over oil now and previously in Iraq, of which is in essence where the whole current war of terrorism is revolving around (as Oil is the main source of finances to terrorism, mainly from contributers of Saudi and Iranian officials). What I mean is that when the USA basically liberated Kuwait, or when it defended free seas in the 1980's tanker war between Iraq and Iran, it did not only benifit the USA, but the whole western world as well.

Currently China can be inward looking. They have almost all natrual resources to their delight and now even exports energy. In about 10 to 20 years China will no more be energy independent and will require to seek oil imports rising its affairs in international areana. Although due to the unique insight of the Chinese government, which, utlizing its supreme control has forsight, China is slowly entering the political areana in efforts of support itself and its expansion.

China right now is on the fence on terrorism, they have both dones acts to support it (such as support the Taliban in hopes they would successfully counter the american radi) as well as things against it (such as supporting the UN security resolutions passed). If it is China's intent to agressively take upon super power status, obviously the concealed support of terrorism would be to their best advantage, as this method of war seems to be most effective then any other against the current circumstances.

In a direct confrontation China would never be able to even threaten the United States, as it has few if ICBMs currently, and in the future it is likely the current 'star wars' program the US is initating will be able to shoot down the few they have decided to create. Obviously an invasion of the mainland would probably never happen for either country, just like in the last cold war, unless the USA was 100% sure no nukes would result in retaliation.

Oh and one more thing; Why when errand bombs fall on a Chinese embassy it is taken as intentional since it is done by the USA, yet when a passenger airliner is shot down by Ukraine, it is just a training mistake?

Honestly one can not say if the Chinese embassy was a mistake, but seeing as it was conducted under President Clinton, who was perhaps one of those most forward moving president in the USA to consolidate affairs with China (and a scandal now endures he received political money from the Chinese infact) leaves me to belive that yes, in war, shit happens.

oh and one more thing dupz, go read the pacifism thread their was here, because by saying and doing nothing, you are subscribing to pacifism, which I as many others have stated in that thread leads to actually the exact opposite of what you hope to achieve utilizing this strategy.

dupz, who started it? the terrorists.

did we just go unprovoked and start killing off terrorist organisations/cells just for no good reason? no.

why did australia enter into the conflict? because we're FUCKING AUSTRALIAN, and our allies/mates the USA needed our HELP, for us to refuse that help would have contradicted all the ideals of mateship that are so firmly in place within our culture.

would you say no to a mate who needed help? by the sounds of it yes, you dont seem very australian to me, why don't you go live in fucking shanghai then.

do i feel safe in living in brisbane, australia? fuck yes i do

let me ask you this: you may feel safe from terrorists in shanghai, but would you feel safe enough to leave the front screen on the porch unlocked during the day? we can do that here, i bet you can't do that over there. so which is the greater evil?

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c o n : f u s e d

China is already a superpower, in many different ways than the U.S. is though. It is developing a wealthy class a middle and a poor class just like other countires, even though it holds its communist past... it seems hard to call it a communist country still, since it holds few of the same ideals, but simply outwardly displays some of the trivial traditions. Oh-fucking-well.... I kinda look at it as part of the Big Nation... There are the Wealthy Rulers all over the world who econically and physically control much of the direction of poilitics today- America is not the only evil empire, the entire world is consumed by one giant one, that includes all countries... America just seems to been able to build itself up the quickest mainly due to the oppression of other peoples and te slavery of those contained with in its natural bounty... OHwell

quote:

In a direct confrontation China would never be able to even threaten the United States, as it has few if ICBMs currently, and in the future it is likely the current 'star wars' program the US is initating will be able to shoot down the few they have decided to create.

True that they don't have much ICBMs, but you forget that they have 6000+ nuclear bombs, and the US is in their bomber range. Also they have submarines and ships armed with smaller nuclear weapons.

But, nuclear weapons would only be used as a last resort, and if they were to be used, it would annihilate both countries, plus most of the rest of the world.

If there would be a conflict, it would probably be another cold war with many new Vietnam or Korea-like wars, where the superpowers are mereley testing themselves against the other.

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1+1=10

Also, just now I saw that the Chinese have a plan to make a permanent base on a moon about 2010. And at the time when all the other nations are slowly forgetting about space travel.

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1+1=10