I was at a party last night, and this DJ played "Quivver - Twist and Shout". It was a badASS song. But I was thinking to myself "Damn, I need to get more house", cause I thought it was house. I was almost thinking it was tribal house, cause it had a great tribal feel to it. So I get home, go straight to www.satelliterecords.com and look up "Quivver - Twist and Shout", and it says "Progressive", for the genre. What the hell? That was HOUSE or my name is Betsy. What's with this "Progressive" thing. Someone explain.

Nowadays people use the blanket term progressive to mean progressive trance or progressive house; hell I've even heard breaks referred to as "progressive". And it's not like there's a distinct line between prog trance and prog house anyway...

Well, could you explain the difference in House, and Progressive House. Or Trance, and Progressive Trance, if there is one. I never see just "Trance".

All these extra tack-on words confuse me. Its easy to identify Trance, House, Hardcore, DnB, Breaks, and to a lesser extent Techno. But, when you get into all this progressive two-step jump-up tribal stuff, it confuses me. Too many modifiers. But I need to get better at this, cause I suck at vinyl shopping.

the improvement comes with time i guess.
i havent heard the track but ive always thought quivver's stuff was progressive not house.
strictly house would be something like shiny disco balls

quote:

Originally posted by miss_e strictly house would be something like shiny disco balls

exactly.

BobTheSlob, if i may give a suggestion, this is how i personally "break up" the genres:

if it's trance, it's easy to tell. uplifting, etc., i call all trance that is remotely trance, just TRANCE. well, hard trance gets its own "subgenre".

THEN!

whatever is like trance, but without synths, with a greater focus on the bassline, with a housier feel, i call PROGRESSIVE.

here's my rule of thumb: if i'm having doubts as to whether or not a track should be progressive, then i KNOW it's progresive. progressive doesn't just mean one special genre, it's really more of a concept, a concept of "expanding" musical genres, making up new stuff. most of the time it gets the classic progressive sound. but it doesn't have to strictly sound like that. hope i'm not being too convoluted.

thus, i only call things "house" that are strict and dead-obvious house.

What I think would help would be to give examples of some progressive tunes, and some examples of trance tracks. That will probably help this gentleman (and myself) a lot.

I realize theres a big gray area that proghouse and progtrance are becoming, but there are some pretty big differences.

1.PT is(for the most part) a couple beats faster than PH.
2.PH features a lot more percussion than PT.
3.PT has more of an emphasis on musicality/chords and shit. A lot of PH tracks wont even change the notes of the bassline throughout the song, where PT will change its bassline / introduce new melody.
4.If I hear a tribal track that has atonal synth shit, I will throw it into the PH bin.
So all in all, PH = Chunky peanut butter. PT = Smooth Peanut butter

SOME RANDOM EXAMPLES from my mp3 collection. If someone wants to argue where I put them, go ahead


PT:
Cass and Slide - Spanker
Cass - The Trader(Lemon8's Inner Sanctuary mix
Above - New Day Dawning(Cass & Slide mix)
Starecase - Bitter Little Pill
Sasha - Xpander
Sasha - Scorchio
Most Max Graham productions EXCEPT Globe - Can't Stop Fallin In Love(max graham remix)
Gabriel & Dresden remixes / productions
Most Way out West tunes
Trancesetters productions
Oko Tek - Luminous, Bento
Nat Monday - Connecting(Jay Welsh's Black Ice remix)
Karen Ramirez - Troubled Girl(WOW remix)

PH:
Satoshi Tomiie - Virus(Luke Fair remix)
Blackwatch - Skin Deep
Bill Hamel - Phazon Phrequency (BLIM's Steady Mix)
Bedrock - Voices (Saeed & Palash Breathless Remix)
Fisher project - I Get a Rush (Moogwai vs Chab Remix)
Vertigo - Above it All(Stef's Digital Dub)
Jimmy Van M feat. Formula - Jetlag
Trendroid Productions
Trisco - Ultra
Oko Tek - Tazer, Whitelight, Inception
Ogenki Clinic - Kirei(Holden vs Main Element)
Cass+Slide versus Tenaglia - Fever Rising
Breeder - Carnival XIII
Way out West - UB devoid

Any takes on WOW - Sequoia and WOW - Activity?

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Last edited by Theotrope on Feb-17-2003 at 00:17

Quivver is definately progressive house.

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Oh shit, forgot all about them.
although the Quivver RMX of Calling Your name is PT

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quote:

Originally posted by Theotrope PT: Cass and Slide - Spanker Cass - The Trader(Lemon8's Inner Sanctuary mix Above - New Day Dawning(Cass & Slide mix) Starecase - Bitter Little Pill Sasha - Xpander Sasha - Scorchio Most Max Graham productions EXCEPT Globe - Can't Stop Fallin In Love(max graham remix) Gabriel & Dresden remixes / productions Most Way out West tunes Trancesetters productions Oko Tek - Luminous, Bento Nat Monday - Connecting(Jay Welsh's Black Ice remix) PH: Satoshi Tomiie - Virus(Luke Fair remix) Blackwatch - Skin Deep Bill Hamel - Phazon Phrequency (BLIM's Steady Mix) Bedrock - Voices (Saeed & Palash Breathless Remix) Fisher project - I Get a Rush (Moogwai vs Chab Remix) Vertigo - Above it All(Stef's Digital Dub) Jimmy Van M feat. Formula - Jetlag Trendroid Productions Trisco - Ultra Oko Tek - Tazer, Whitelight, Inception Ogenki Clinic - Kirei(Holden vs Main Element) Cass+Slide versus Tenaglia - Fever Rising Breeder - Carnival XIII

*Starecaes - Bitter Little Pill is no way progressive trance. thats like progrssive/electro breaks...
*way out west stuff arent progressive trance... thye are primarily prog house though they do trancey stuff and even prog breaks stuff.
*gabriel & Dresden stuff i wouldnt consider prog trance either. they are primariley prog house stuff w/ trancey feel to them.

imo alotta Max Graham & James Holden stuff are most prog trancish producers. cass & slide perception is also too. also like Taucher.

good example of prog house wuld be Filterheadz.

just my $0.02

-BLuEOcEaN420

___________________

"We're just two lost souls
Swimming in a fish bowl,
Year after year,
Running over the same old ground.
What have we found?
The same old fears."

I gotta admit I goofed when I put WOW as mostly PT.
*original list edited*

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quote:

Originally posted by BLuEOcEaN420 *Starecaes - Bitter Little Pill is no way progressive trance. thats like progrssive/electro breaks... *way out west stuff arent progressive trance... thye are primarily prog house though they do trancey stuff and even prog breaks stuff. *gabriel & Dresden stuff i wouldnt consider prog trance either. they are primariley prog house stuff w/ trancey feel to them. imo alotta Max Graham & James Holden stuff are most prog trancish producers. cass & slide perception is also too. also like Taucher. good example of prog house wuld be Filterheadz. just my $0.02 -BLuEOcEaN420

You see, this is why it's almost silly to debate genres. I disagree with a few of those statements. Hypocrisy is a fun thing isn't it... this is what I think:

Agreed about Starecase, although some of their tracks are obviously not breaks. Breakbeats shouldn't be called progressive anything if you ask me... unless you want to call it progressive breaks or something.

I also agree about Max Graham and James Holden being prog trance. That sounds pretty accurate.

However, I wouldn't call Way Out West exclusively prog house. Most of their stuff is too synth-driven, or is breaks. Also Gabriel & Dresden seem to be mostly trance, although they do have a somewhat distinctive bassline which is quite housey sounding. But this is why it's so hard to discuss genres -- nobody can say where trance ends and house begins.

If I had to suggest some artists that seem to be purely progressive house, I'd say stuff like Mara, Dino Lenny, Piliavin & Zimbardo, Marcello Castelli, Luke Fair, etc.

Another problem is that definitions change. In the time of, say, Sasha's GU13, tracks like Cass & Slide - Perception and Natious - Amber were considered progressive trance -- now they're probably closer to uplifting. Having said all that, I think it's impossible to assuredly say, "this artist is _____" or even "this song is _____" because it's simply too subjective.