ok i got my gear two weeks ago, im spinning CD's and loveing it so far. I've have been practicing non stop... i can beat match pretty well now (though im amayzed at how fast some poeple can do it) and start from cue point descently too... my problem is sometimes even though the beats are matched up closely its still like a micron of a fraction off. now my problem is when this happens i cant tell which one is playing ahead of which, so how do i know which one to nudge a bit? i probably know the answer, which is more practice, but maybe some of you can tip me in on how you do it?
thanks...

p.s. if there are any other tips you wanna give me to ease my praticing (beat-matching/mixing) or drills of some sort dont be shy and fill me in

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If God is the answer, it must have been a very stupid question.

The way I do it, my mixer has lights at the left side, the right side, and in the middle.

When the middle light is on, the beats are perfectly matched. Now, if one of the left lights is on, I speed up the left one, same with the right.

BTW what mixer do you use?

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Download all my EuroHardTrance traxx & learn more about me ("Kompulsor"):
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One tip I can give you is this...

Most trance/dance tunes have 4/4 beat, marked by segments which I call "squares"... For example you know the start of a "square" when you hear an especially strong starting beat, or right after a build-up. You know?

Well, when you mix, try to match the "squares" of one song and the other (and not just the beats), so that when you're ready to switch to the other song 100%, a new "square" is coming up, and the transition feels even more natural.

I'm sorry for my terminology, if someone knows the official terms for this please tell me

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First and foremost is as you guessed, practice.

Some times it can help to listen to a mix of both tunes in one ear instead of listening to a split of one track/ear. You could get a similar effect by having the headphone earpiece kind of half way on your ear. When doing this try to be aware of elements that are unique to each song. This is similar in principle to keeping them matched while in the mix.

Also, with alot of songs it's easier if you try to key off of higher frequency sounds rather than listening to the drums alone.

If for some reason you still can't tell then you have two optoins:

1) Wait until they get so far out of synch that it is obvious to you which one is faster.

2) Guess, and correct (and maybe re-correct).

I perfer option 2 myself. More often than not you will find that your guess is actually correct, and the more you practice the more often this will be the case. You will still miscorrect, but if you end up making it a bit worse it becomes obvious which way you need to correct to counter your miscorrection. As you do this more you should get better correcting as well.

As for 1, it works, but it's usually a bit slower than two for beat matching. It also usually sounds worse than 2 if you are in the middle of a mix and just drag out the desynched songs.

I'm not 100% on this. But in the case of most trance 4 beats would be a bar or measure. And they usually seem to be grouped in either 2 or 4 bar chunks but I'm not sure what these would be called.

Going off what Eugene said about the 4/4 beat, if you listen to trance songs they all have a set pattern for example...the beats all have a pattern of:

1-234, 2-234, 3-234, 4-234, 5-234, 6-234, 7-234, 8-234
(each set of #'s is called a measure I belive)

meaning each number is when a beat will happen...a new element like a cymbal, or lyrics starting) will always start (twards the begging of a song) or end (twards the end of the song) on the #1 in the above sequence.

If you make sure the record your bringing in is matched to that pattern of the one that is playing, a new element will start on the new record just as an element will end on the record that was playing.

Listen to any trance song and count the beats, you'll soon get an ear for it.

As far as beat matching, if you have time, just have the new song playing along and matched the to one already playing...usually within about 3 whole sets (meaning 24 measures) of the pattern above you can here it get away if it is not full matched. If you dont have the ear to tell if it is going a bit faster or a bit slower than the one already playing (wich you will with practice) just slow it down a bit and see if the beats are matched again...if it sounds worse you know you needed to spped it up...if it sounds good, your usually good to go....all this is dont before you actually mix the song, while listening through your headphones.

Hope I didnt make it sound too complicated, as im sure there is a better way to explain it.

this is some wonderful stuff, i didnt know about the 4 bar thingy, well at least never thought of it. i'll definetly start playing around with it.
fyx: for the most part i've also done that second option of yours and you're right about being right more the wrong. also what i do is on my mixer (stanton rm -100) it has a light the blinks with the beat and i try to see which one is ahead of which but agian when the beats are just microns off its hard to tell, plus i consider that cheating, hehe. i had a question for you though, what did you mean by "try to key off of higher frequency sounds rather than listening to the drums alone."?

btw; thanks for the tips this forum is like a miracle worker for new DJ's

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If God is the answer, it must have been a very stupid question.

Just keep practicing, and before you know it you will be able to listen to the two songs matched, and hear just from the monitor which is going too fast/slow and speed up/slow down that song accordingly.

I used to deejay so here are some tips. Get really good at beat mixing. That is one of the key's and also track selection will be another key to whether you are a good deejay or an average deejay. But my advice is get really good at beat mixing, then start making mixtapes and give them to friends and promoters. This is if you want to go far. If your any good, you will get the job. Please remember this, okay. Please don't get discouraged just force yourself to work harder. People diss you, just work harder. Don't listen to people that try to put you down and have fun deejaying. People sometimes lose the fun, if that happens, find another hobby. Let me know how things turn and if you have any questions, I'd be more than happy to answer any pm's. Good Luck

Peace
Torontotrance

torontotrance, i know what you're saying. i'm still new to this so there is no way in hell im a "discouraged DJ", i'm just discourged right now about that minor matching thingy and hey because of y'all its actually getting better and hey I'm loving every second i practice. thanks for the inspritation and support.

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If God is the answer, it must have been a very stupid question.

Yeah.. don't be discouraged... just keep practicing.. i've been practicing for a little over a year now.. and i still have to make minor ajustments to my mixes.. ie.. speeding up or down.. etc.. I play live on FM radio for the University of Alberta and sometimes i screw up .. no sweat... just keep going!

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Darkevil / Philippe Lam
U N I T E D P R O D U C T I O N S
SUSHICREW / BOODANG / UNDERGROUND

What I meant by key off higher frequency sounds was to listen to sounds like claps and hihats and maybe synth stuff instead of focusing just on the kickdrum or deep base elements of the songs. The higher frequency sounds are usually more distinctive than bass sounds, their timing is also more apparent. Be careful though, some times songs have sounds that can be 1/2 or 1/4 beat off from from the main rythm, which can be confusing.