http://archive.aclu.org/news/2001/w080801a.html

August 8, 2001 -- Chicago Parent Challenges Teen Curfew



CHICAGO -- Nancy Hodgkins, a mother who last year persuaded a federal judge to declare

the state's curfew law unconstitutional, is involved in her third curfew lawsuit in two years, The Chicago Tribune reported.

According to the Tribune, she is now challenging the Indiana General Assembly's most recent effort to govern the nighttime activities of teenagers.

The lawsuit filed last month in United States District Court in Indianapolis is part of a continuing effort to challenge state and local curfew laws across the country. The movement comes as hundreds of communities embrace curfews as a means to combat crime and protect children.

"If the government wants to parent our kids, then they can stock the refrigerator and help pay for their education," said Hodgkins, a co-owner of an antique shop. "I don't think the government needs to be involved in decisions about families."

City officials overwhelmingly support curfews, according to a survey from the National Conference of Mayors. For many parents, a legal curfew is a powerful argument to rebut the pleadings of teenagers that they should be allowed to stay out into the wee hours.

"The vast majority of parents support the curfew," said Beth White, Indianapolis' deputy corporation counsel. "Regardless of how mature a parent thinks their child is ... we don't believe a blanket parental discretion is a good tool."

But the July 2000 ruling striking down the old Indiana law has shaken confidence in the curfew's legal validity. The new law went into effect in May, even as opponents prepared to challenge it in court.

A co-sponsor of the new law, Democratic state Rep. Duane Cheney, said last week that he expects the Indiana law or a similar one to head to the United States Supreme Court for a final determination.

"I'm open to anyone's idea on what will work," Cheney said.

On the heels of last summer's ruling in Indiana, courts have recently struck down curfew ordinances in New Jersey and Alaska as too restrictive. Courts have not spoken with any consistency, though, as local ordinances have been upheld in Virginia, Texas and the District of Columbia.

In the meantime, others are being challenged by the American Civil Liberties Union as violations of the First Amendment rights of free speech for children and the parents' due process rights to determine the care, custody and control of their children.

"Local officials can muddle along knowing they'll get sued by the ACLU and they probably have a 50-50 chance of winning," said Nadine Strossen, a professor of law at New York Law School and president of the ACLU.

"There is so much PR value in curfews in that [officials are] being able to say they're doing something for kids and safety. That's the sound bite they're using."

The Indiana law is unusual because it is statewide. Most curfew laws are local. Chicago has a weekday 10:30 p.m. curfew for children under age 17 and a weekend curfew of 11:30 p.m. Laws and curfews are different in other Illinois communities.

Critics say curfews are too often enforced haphazardly and may be used to target racial minorities. Studies have long questioned their effectiveness.

"I think people are taking a long and serious look at just how many decisions they want government to make for them," said John Krull, Executive Director of the Indiana Civil Liberties Union. The ICLU is handling the case for the Hodgkins family.

"In this case, with the latest Indiana curfew law, you had legislators saying the final authority with raising children rested not with parents but with politicians," Krull said. "That's what this is ultimately about."

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Age discrimination is, without a doubt, the single greatest inequity remaining in most of western society.

I very much disagree with the statement that it's the largest discrimination, or a discrimination at all. Thousands of small towns and cities have these curfews...it's old news. I think that some people cry foul on it simply for the fact that many kids these days are undisciplined and the lack of parental care/teaching is the root cause. There is absolutely no reason kids should be out after 11pm 99% of the time...There are instances such as some weekend and summer nights after events are held where it should be allowed. However, the main reason the curfews are implimented in the first place is the rash of problems that underage people have caused/may cause in the town that it's implemented. Very few towns/cities have underage clubs or establishments where they can be as a group late at night. Only larger cities seem to have these clubs and they deal with probably many more problems than just minors...(i.e. drugs/violence/etc). Once you are 18, the law doesn't apply, and the opportunity to go out late and club or whatever increases.

All the towns around my area had these laws when I grew up and the were there for protective reasons. There were almost NO instances where the law had to even be used. I just guess we were brought up a little more disciplined and respectful of others back in the day.

I agree they can't be too restrictive or penalizing...more over a simple go home or I'll take you there...I don't think there needs to be stiff fines on the simple first couple events, but in this day, younger and younger kids are getting into more and more trouble and making the news.

I hate to play devils advocate...but when you get older you appreciate a quiet night where kids don't have the ability to run around and cause havoc in the neighborhood via curfew, or simple parenting skills.

As far as what's most discriminatory...I think we are at a point where (in the job place) reverse discrimination, and filling quotas has become the most unfair practice today. That's another discussion/argument by itself.

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quote:

Originally posted by PhloTron I very much disagree with the statement that it's the largest discrimination, or a discrimination at all. Thousands of small towns and cities have these curfews...it's old news.

Slavery existed for millenia. The fact that it was old didn't have anything to do with how justified it was.

quote:

I think that some people cry foul on it simply for the fact that many kids these days are undisciplined and the lack of parental care/teaching is the root cause. There is absolutely no reason kids should be out after 11pm 99% of the time...There are instances such as some weekend and summer nights after events are held where it should be allowed.

Why shouldn't kids be able to go out after 11pm?

quote:

However, the main reason the curfews are implimented in the first place is the rash of problems that underage people have caused/may cause in the town that it's implemented.

Punishing a group of people for the actions of a few of them is not a valid or equitable modus operandi for maintaining order.

quote:

All the towns around my area had these laws when I grew up and the were there for protective reasons. There were almost NO instances where the law had to even be used. I just guess we were brought up a little more disciplined and respectful of others back in the day.

Well, that's funny. When I was in high school, I used to go jogging every night at midnight. But I guess you're right, I should have been thrown in jail for it. I should have been more considerate of all the people I was harming by merely exiting my place of residence at such an ungodly hour.

quote:

As far as what's most discriminatory...I think we are at a point where (in the job place) reverse discrimination, and filling quotas has become the most unfair practice today. That's another discussion/argument by itself.

I agree that reverse discrimination is a serious problem. However, I don't think it really compares. The massive deprivation of the right of a huge section of the population to simply take part in simple, harmless human activity under the vague criteria that "most" of them are less "mature" than "most" other people is so utterly beyond rational justification that to think I am the same species as someone who might find it persuasive causes me physical pain.

Ugh... In my state (Georgia) there is a statewide Midnight curfew for anyone under 18. It really, really blows. We've been haggled by the cops for it before, who've threatened to take us all to jail (they havent... yet).

I cant tell you how often this law is simply ignored by the teenage population. It wont stop any kids AT ALL, its just going to give the police one more useless thing to chase. People around here obey this law as much as they do for jaywalking, underage smoking/drinking, and sex. Whats worse, is the law only applies for people outdoors or driving. Meaning you can be at a party until midnight and not be legally allowed to drive home.

Whatever, that law can go fuck itself, it hasnt stopped me before and it never will.

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I am not sure if here in Seattle has a underage curfew, but me and a big group of my friends go every saturday morning (3-7 am) and ride downtown and the skateparks. Police usually don't stop us unless there is traffic around and we are still riding in the street, and even if they do stop us, we usually just get told to ride on the sidewalk, but personally we just wave at any cops we see because I believe they are out keeping us safer so that we can ride at this time. (Nevermind the fact that riding a BMX in a skatepark is illegal ) But, back to the topic, I do believe that age discrimination is a big issue, as I have been stopped many a time for no apparent reason and questioned, but I do not mind if the police still keep those who are committing crimes wary.

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I'm a firm advocate of age discrimination (to some degree). As Arbiter can attest to!

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Retro ...

Last edited by occrider on Oct-15-2003 at 06:51

I have been reevaluating my stance on this issue in the past few days in light of the recent events surrounding my dad's car being tagged with spray paint overnight. The car was parked in the neighborhood where my family has lived for ~20 years; a neighborhood with little to no gang activity. I suppose it's possible that an 80 year old man drove around spray painting cars, but we all know it was more than likely a younger person who commited these crimes of vandalism.

However, I still tend to come to the conclusion that it's unfair to punish and limit the civil rights of an entire age group over the juvenile crimes of a small minority.

I feel we should be looking at ways of reducing juvenile crime that don't endanger law abiding citizens' civil rights, and we should be addressing the underlying causes of juvenile crime instead. In my mind teen curfews are another example of politicians' willingness to obtain votes at any cost. Who better to pick on than those who can't vote?

p.s. He got the paint off.

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Well although I completely disagree with curfews, I think that I will never deviate from the stances I expressed in these previous discussions ...

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...=discrimination

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...on&pagenumber=4

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Retro ...

Unbelievable! In the first half of the 20th century, blacks were the oppressed group of society; now in the new millennium society is cracking down on young people! "A legitimate reason for being out at night"...what bullshit. That's almost like asking a black person for a "legitimate reason" for driving a nice car. I just can't believe what I'm seeing here, I think young people are being shit upon for no apparent reason.

And as far as I know, Canada doesn't have anything like this (at least not in the cities.)

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quote:

Originally posted by Shad0wmaster Unbelievable! In the first half of the 20th century, blacks were the oppressed group of society; now in the new millennium society is cracking down on young people! "A legitimate reason for being out at night"...what bullshit. That's almost like asking a black person for a "legitimate reason" for driving a nice car. I just can't believe what I'm seeing here, I think young people are being shit upon for no apparent reason. And as far as I know, Canada doesn't have anything like this (at least not in the cities.)

I was only able to find one example of this in Canada, but it's not surprising that it's more of an occurance in the US.

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