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St_Andrew
I <3 NYC



Registered: May 2003
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Read This! US - killing itself?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story...1069883,00.html

Interesting (and long) article about environmental issues that no one seems to care about...

Old Post Oct-24-2003 19:11  Europe
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occrider
Traveladdict



Registered: Oct 2000
Location: New York

Yea it sucks that the environment is the first to go in a bad economy. I agree the Bush administration is bad for the environemnt and I would like to see some change, but bear in mind this article is from a leftist/green newspaper. For every scientist who says the environment is self-destructing you can find one who says it's not. At any rate, I'd like to read more opinions from both sides of the board. Before I come to the conclusion that the environment is AS bad (yes I know it's bad) as the article states.

One question however, has the EU met it's own kyoto protocols? (no need to respond, I already know the answer )


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Old Post Oct-24-2003 19:21  United States
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St_Andrew
I <3 NYC



Registered: May 2003
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

quote:
Originally posted by occrider
Yea it sucks that the environment is the first to go in a bad economy. I agree the Bush administration is bad for the environemnt and I would like to see some change, but bear in mind this article is from a leftist/green newspaper. For every scientist who says the environment is self-destructing you can find one who says it's not. At any rate, I'd like to read more opinions from both sides of the board. Before I come to the conclusion that the environment is AS bad (yes I know it's bad) as the article states.


Bush is denying the green house effect, it is hard to find any respected scientist who can backup that statement. And it is not hard at all to find more examples of his ignorance when it come to green politics.

quote:
One question however, has the EU met it's own kyoto protocols? (no need to respond, I already know the answer )


At least EU's emissions is decreasing

Old Post Oct-24-2003 20:25  Europe
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Shakka
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Feb 2003
Location:

Which view do you subscribe to: global warming or global cooling?

Old Post Oct-24-2003 22:14  United States
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rizo
rizoholic



Registered: Apr 2003
Location: sf south bay

...and its about to get worse. well in my state anyway, now that arrrnold is in office. his going to take it up the ass by corporations and bush.

Old Post Oct-25-2003 00:10 
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Yoepus
Neo-condimist



Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Ketchup fields, Texas
Re: US - killing itself?

quote:
Originally posted by St_Andrew
Interesting (and long) article about environmental issues that no one seems to care about...


I sure as hell don't... why the hell are you wasting our time posting this useless thing?

Old Post Oct-25-2003 01:29  Israel
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daffodil
don't worry about it



Registered: Jun 2003
Location: brooklyn, usa

bush does have some clever environmental initiatives, such as cutting down trees to prevent forest fires

"the boondocks" spent a couple days making fun of that.

Old Post Oct-25-2003 01:38  United States
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occrider
Traveladdict



Registered: Oct 2000
Location: New York

quote:
Originally posted by St_Andrew
Bush is denying the green house effect, it is hard to find any respected scientist who can backup that statement. And it is not hard at all to find more examples of his ignorance when it come to green politics.


Oh I agree, I never said bush was good for the environment ... I merely stated that from what I've read, the environment is not as worse off as the article indicates. The article states that the "other side" have plenty of proponents that will argue their case yet they fail to quote a single expert of the other side. However, they seem to have no qualms quoting experts to support their "the environmental apocalypse is at hand" stance. Now why would that be? Hmmm could it be because it's a green/liberal slanting newspaper? Well don't take my word for proof of fact, look them up under www.worldpress.org. It's an unbiased (as far as I know) media organization that classifies media based upon their political stances. It's been a resourceful tool in determining how many grains of salt I should take when presented with a particular article.


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Old Post Oct-25-2003 04:54  United States
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DaveSZ
When The Levee Breaks



Registered: Jan 2003
Location: ATX
Re: US - killing itself?

quote:
Originally posted by St_Andrew
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story...1069883,00.html

Interesting (and long) article about environmental issues that no one seems to care about...



The link that you posted doesn't work for me, but yes I'd say as a global community we are poisoning ourselves. Bush's (and Republicans') stance on environmental issues is always to side with big oil, big industry, ever since his governorship of the state of Texas.

I've been to the border region between Texas and Mexico and have experienced first hand how polluted it is in this region (due largely to American corporations who move to Mexico to circumvent US environmental rules (which are falling one by one anyways thanks to the Republicans).

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...ight=where+week
^^
somewhat long read but worth it

quote:
Originally posted by Yoepus
I sure as hell don't... why the hell are you wasting our time posting this useless thing?



I'm going to ASSume that you were being facetious in your saying that considering:

quote:
Dirtiest air in America
TOM BEARDEN: Environmentalists point to the fact that during Bush's tenure, Texas has achieved the dubious distinction, according to the Environmental Protection Agency, of having the dirtiest air in America, of ranking 47th in water quality, and having the seventh-highest rate of release of toxic industrial byproducts onto its land. Ken Kramer is the Sierra Club's Texas state director.


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Old Post Oct-25-2003 06:14 
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St_Andrew
I <3 NYC



Registered: May 2003
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

quote:
Originally posted by occrider
Oh I agree, I never said bush was good for the environment ... I merely stated that from what I've read, the environment is not as worse off as the article indicates. The article states that the "other side" have plenty of proponents that will argue their case yet they fail to quote a single expert of the other side. However, they seem to have no qualms quoting experts to support their "the environmental apocalypse is at hand" stance. Now why would that be? Hmmm could it be because it's a green/liberal slanting newspaper? Well don't take my word for proof of fact, look them up under www.worldpress.org. It's an unbiased (as far as I know) media organization that classifies media based upon their political stances. It's been a resourceful tool in determining how many grains of salt I should take when presented with a particular article.


According to www.worldpress.org, the guardian is a liberal (doesn't say anything about green...) newspaper

As far as i know, the situation is almost worse. I tried to found some independent facts but i didn't find any. But in common most people saying environment isn't bad, are supported by big companies or company ass licking governments.

Old Post Oct-25-2003 15:08  Europe
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Trancer-X
mutatis mutandis



Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Shambhala

There's a correlation between how a person views and utilizes our earth and it's natural resources, and how they regard it's inhabitants.

Bush's relegation of our environmental concerns sharply points in the direction of him not giving a flying f#@k about the welfare of our planet's future generations, which in turn suggests that he really could care less about humanity as a whole - which if you haven't figured out by now, includes US!

While I realize that we live in a disposable, consumer oriented society, I also feel that we as human beings have a responsibility to our descendants.

It's amazing how far science and technology has progressed while our relationship with the earth has grown ever more unsymbiotic.


As the wise old sage once said, "Don't shit in your own backyard!"

Old Post Oct-28-2003 22:26  United States
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LiquidX
It's All OvA!



Registered: Mar 2001
Location: In Ur Mind

quote:
Originally posted by occrider
Oh I agree, I never said bush was good for the environment ... I merely stated that from what I've read, the environment is not as worse off as the article indicates. The article states that the "other side" have plenty of proponents that will argue their case yet they fail to quote a single expert of the other side. However, they seem to have no qualms quoting experts to support their "the environmental apocalypse is at hand" stance. Now why would that be? Hmmm could it be because it's a green/liberal slanting newspaper? Well don't take my word for proof of fact, look them up under www.worldpress.org. It's an unbiased (as far as I know) media organization that classifies media based upon their political stances. It's been a resourceful tool in determining how many grains of salt I should take when presented with a particular article.


- Before I really got a look into politics, I used to follow the environmnent much more then wars and terrorists and presidents. I have done several researches on the green house effect, the ozone layer and pollutions. The environment is on a very danger state, and the article does point out, and faces reality as it should. I hate when this things arent taken serious enough. The global warming will be one of the biggest topics that this century will face in near future. We have allready experienced climate changes, and sadly enough, the poor countries are the ones sucking up all the effects from the superpowers and industrialized countries. There's never much concscience tours whats really happening in the environment, why?? .. for the mere reason of the own politics and interests of those above. There's so much stuff going on behind us, and so much damage as well. Lets take in for example, the Amazons in Brazil - Those are the lungs of the earth, and are been destroyed big times, all because of special interests, and nothing is been done about it. Another example are the damage that the choral reefs around the world, especially in Australia and here in Florida, as a result of climate change in the waters, pollutions, and boats. Everything that its done has a reaction.. and its more like a chain reaction. So overall, Im sad to tell you this Occrider, but the environment IS getting worst and worst by the day if you really see the the real effects, and if people get educated enough about this. Im really scared about the Global Warming, and it saddens me to see Glaciers around the world melt at record speeds. The Antartica is spliting and melting as well, and the Ozone Layer is weaker and weaker by the years, exposing all of us to the Ultraviolet rays. You see, there are so many things that we dont either see or accept, because its not affecting us directly, but the effects in the future, will be devastating, as they are allready in parts of the worlds. And this is probably the first reason why Im so against Bush, he got out of the Kyoto treaty, and doesnt believe in global warming, how ignorant is that, the president of the country that throws the highest quanity if pollution in the world, and with the highest consuming.


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Old Post Oct-29-2003 13:43  Chile
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