Ever since the whole "biased news" craze started, it seems like an ever-increasing number of people have lost the ability to distinguish a report from an argument.

A report, is a statement of facts. It does not attempt to present a specific point of view, nor draw broad conclusions based on the facts being presented. If a report is "biased", that means it is presenting facts selectively, or misrepresenting them altogether. In this case, the report is flawed.

On the other hand, an argument, in which one makes a series of assertions derived from a set of premises to reach a conclusion, is not supposed to present the opposite point of view - except in order to refute it. Arguments are, by their very nature, biased.

The point I'm getting at here, is that it seems like I can't read this forum without seeing people call each other's arguments "biased" and, IMHO, it's really starting to hurt the quality of the discussions. Calling someone's argument "biased" is NOT a valid means to attack or refute that argument. They aren't supposed to present a neutral account. If they did, they wouldn't really be making an argument.

Summary:
Calling news resports biased = OK
Calling someone's argument biased = NOT OK

That is all.

Cheers,

Arbiter

The only thing I would add is that many people claim others to be "biased" for the wrong reasons. I see many posters claim others are "biased" when they are either unable to see other viewpoints on an issue, or as a last-resort when the retorter becomes frustrated. (Similar to playing the "race" card, if you will) I think that the inability to see past their own arguement maybe makes them "one-sided" or many even a little "narrow minded," but not "biased."

I agree though, it is impossible to be totally "unbiased" as we all come from different walks of life with different philosophies. It would be pretty boring if we all didn't take differing positions on things, and even worse if we somehow resolved all of our disputes...how lame would that be?

Okay, I'll never use quotation marks again.

But its sooo much more fun to flame than think.

quote:

Originally posted by Arbiter Ever since the whole "biased news" craze started, it seems like an ever-increasing number of people have lost the ability to distinguish a report from an argument. A report, is a statement of facts. It does not attempt to present a specific point of view, nor draw broad conclusions based on the facts being presented. If a report is "biased", that means it is presenting facts selectively, or misrepresenting them altogether. In this case, the report is flawed. On the other hand, an argument, in which one makes a series of assertions derived from a set of premises to reach a conclusion, is not supposed to present the opposite point of view - except in order to refute it. Arguments are, by their very nature, biased. The point I'm getting at here, is that it seems like I can't read this forum without seeing people call each other's arguments "biased" and, IMHO, it's really starting to hurt the quality of the discussions. Calling someone's argument "biased" is NOT a valid means to attack or refute that argument. They aren't supposed to present a neutral account. If they did, they wouldn't really be making an argument. Summary: Calling news resports biased = OK Calling someone's argument biased = NOT OK That is all. Cheers, Arbiter

I find your argument against "bias" to be rather "biased", in my own personal "biased" opinion. Why are you so "biased" against "biased" arguments?

Stop being so "biased", will you?

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

quote:

Originally posted by Arbiter Ever since the whole "biased news" craze started, it seems like an ever-increasing number of people have lost the ability to distinguish a report from an argument. A report, is a statement of facts. It does not attempt to present a specific point of view, nor draw broad conclusions based on the facts being presented. If a report is "biased", that means it is presenting facts selectively, or misrepresenting them altogether. In this case, the report is flawed. On the other hand, an argument, in which one makes a series of assertions derived from a set of premises to reach a conclusion, is not supposed to present the opposite point of view - except in order to refute it. Arguments are, by their very nature, biased. The point I'm getting at here, is that it seems like I can't read this forum without seeing people call each other's arguments "biased" and, IMHO, it's really starting to hurt the quality of the discussions. Calling someone's argument "biased" is NOT a valid means to attack or refute that argument. They aren't supposed to present a neutral account. If they did, they wouldn't really be making an argument. Summary: Calling news resports biased = OK Calling someone's argument biased = NOT OK That is all. Cheers, Arbiter

So is this an argument or a report? I see no clear thread of assertions leading to a conclusion, yet you are clearly focusing your attention on select parts of the discussions in this forum, which should only be allowed for arguments. I guess we have to introduce a third category of text: The opinion. Pure bias.
Seriously, I do agree with your point about the arguing skills of some people in this forum not being exceptional. But how are we supposed to change that? I could suggest Weston's "A Rulebook for Arguments", but I doubt anyone would read it. Come to think of it, people who argue from sagas and legends (the Bible, the local preacher etc.) probably won't read this topic in the first place. And these people do tend to be the ones yelling "bias" and/or exercising it.

quote:

Originally posted by trancaholic So is this an argument or a report? I see no clear thread of assertions leading to a conclusion, yet you are clearly focusing your attention on select parts of the discussions in this forum, which should only be allowed for arguments. I guess we have to introduce a third category of text: The opinion. Pure bias. Seriously, I do agree with your point about the arguing skills of some people in this forum not being exceptional. But how are we supposed to change that? I could suggest Weston's "A Rulebook for Arguments", but I doubt anyone would read it. Come to think of it, people who argue from sagas and legends (the Bible, the local preacher etc.) probably won't read this topic in the first place. And these people do tend to be the ones yelling "bias" and/or exercising it.

Jeez, you're soooooo biased!

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

When people accuse an argument of being "biased", I think what they're trying to say is that the author has deliberately ignored factual information that would go some way to disproving the claims they're trying to make. That is, key facts (that the author should acknowledge in order to make a "stronger" case) have been ignored or omitted.

Nonetheless, this isn't really "bias" (or no more "biased" than even the best put together "argument"), merely stupidity.

___________________
http://eschatonnow.blogspot.com/

quote:

Originally posted by Renegade When people accuse an argument of being "biased", I think what they're trying to say is that the author has deliberately ignored factual information that would go some way to disproving the claims they're trying to make. That is, key facts (that the author should acknowledge in order to make a "stronger" case) have been ignored or omitted. Nonetheless, this isn't really "bias" (or no more "biased" than even the best put together "argument"), merely stupidity.

I figured you'd write such a biased argument like this. It's just sooooo obvious.

Am I annoying anyone yet?

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 I figured you'd write such a biased argument like this. It's just sooooo obvious. Am I annoying anyone yet?

Absolutely.


The sad thing is that you actually think you're being humorous.

___________________
aka Tits McGee
aka Chesty LaRue
aka Busty St. Claire

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 I figured you'd write such a biased argument like this. It's just sooooo obvious. Am I annoying anyone yet?

Not yet. Perhaps if you said this as rebuttal to everyone in all the threads in the forum?

Oh crap ... there I go again with my bias.

___________________
Retro ...

quote:

Originally posted by anuneventrade Absolutely. The sad thing is that you actually think you're being humorous.

I really had hoped better things from you. Instead, you gave such an incredibly biased argument. Truly, I have more sadness towards you.

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

quote:

Originally posted by occrider Not yet. Perhaps if you said this as rebuttal to everyone in all the threads in the forum? Oh crap ... there I go again with my bias.

Well, you beat me to it.

Okay, I'm done. Sorry for the annoyance.

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...