hi.

first i'd like to say that I'm NOT a producer ... just a simple dj ...

fact is that I really like to improve my mixes so I thought it's really time to buy some decent speakers ... until now i had some crappy 2.1 pc speakers ..

i have no idea which one to buy ... i'm just telling u guys out there some of my thoughts...maybe u can help me

.i really want an activ monitor.
.i just need it for my room.no party-monster-speakers or whatever.
.but i want brilliant sound.
.i have no idea if i should take one or two ... as said .. i'm trying to become a really good dj.
.i don't like to spend more than 600-700 €.

... i have looked thru some forums but i really don't know what is good and what not ...


please recommendations. i have heard from

- alesis monitor one
- behringer truth
- jbl eon ( is this studio monitor ???)
- mackie
- db technologies

....

help HIGHLY appreciated.
thx !!

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You can't go wrong with Mackies. I've heard great things about the Behringer Truths also. The JBLs eons are great for PA systems, but maybe too big for your needs.

i have M-Audio StudioPhile BX8 (Pair) i payed $499.97+tax 41.25=$541.22



Studiophile BX8 Reference Monitors

Integral to the design of the BX8s is the concept that monitors should be able to adapt to any changes in placement or work environment. Since a monitor's bass response can change depending upon proximity to walls, the BX8s' Acoustic Space control section allows users to optimize the monitors' performance-no matter whether they need to go on stands, on a bookshelf or in the corners. Users can also adjust the high-frequency response to compensate for reflective surfaces like glass. The Presence control provides an automatic mid-range boost for added flexibility. The BX8s even include variable low-frequency roll-off to optimize response at crossover points when adding a subwoofer like the Studiophile SP-8S.

The key to the BX8s' accurate sound is the synergistic active design and integration of all elements, providing superior performance and fidelity over systems comprised of separate components. The BX8s' bi-amped design further enhances fidelity by sending only the optimal frequencies to the high and low drivers. The integral crossover network and power amplifiers deliver flat frequency response, smooth transition in the crossover region, minimal distortion and maximized power handling.

The BX8s' high-fidelity sound also owes to the use of top-quality components. The 1-inch natural silk high-frequency drivers employ a flush design and electronic time alignment with the low-frequency driver, resulting in controlled dispersion for superior three-dimensional imaging. The high-frequency drivers also employ ferrofluid cooling and internal damping to minimize resonance. The 8-inch low-frequency drivers feature mineral-filled polypropylene cones with high-temperature tolerant voice coils and damped rubber surrounds. All drivers are magnetically shielded for desktop music production. The tooled rear Sub-Frequency Ports reduce low-frequency turbulence and optimize driver excursion for amazing bass despite the BX8s' small footprint.

BX8 Specs

130 watts of bi-amped near-field technology
Type: Two-way near-field studio reference monitors

Low-frequency driver: 8-inch polypropylene curved cone

High-frequency driver: 1-inch natural silk dome

LF Amplifier Power: 65W (EIA RS-490 dynamic power)

HF Amplifier Power: 65W (EIA RS-490 dynamic power)

Crossovers: 4th-order Linkwitz Riley for smooth frequency response

Crossover Frequency: 1.25kHz

Low-frequency rolloff: 6th-order filter optimizes maximum driver excursion

Input Connectors: XLR balanced, TRS balanced/unbalanced

Input Sensitivity: 85 mV pink noise input produces 90dBA output SPL at one meter with volume control at maximum

Input Impedance: 20k ohms balanced, 10K ohms unbalanced

Protection: RF interference, output current limiting, over temperature, transient on/off, subsonic filter, external main fuse

S/N Ratio: > 100dB below full output, "A" weighted

Frequency Response: 37Hz - 20kHz

Power indicator: Power on/off indicator on front panel

Power Requirements: 115V/~60Hz or 230V/~50Hz (selectable); power via detachable 3-conductor line cord

Dimension: 14.97 in. (h) x 9.85 in. (w) x 11.82 in. (d)

Weight: 20.32 lbs./unit (without packing)

Why do you want active monitors?

I suggest this to everyone, because in my opinion it is the best way to get outstanding sound for a reasonable price:

Buy yourself an amp. Doesnt have to be anything fancy, check out ebay for some amazing deals on older gear. run a search on "integrated amp" and there should be a pretty big selection. even a vintage marantz could work. $50US or so would get you something decent. If you dont like older/used gear, or you want alittle more power, go to your local electronics store and check out current models. its probably around $150US for new gear. Why do I suggest an amp? Because you generally get more power than with active monitors (the Studiophiles have 65W.. a moderately priced amp should have atleast 75-100), plus it allows you to upgrade components easily (change speakers, buy a sub, even surrounds).

With the leftover money you can get a pair of good speakers. not just good speakers, AMAZING SPeakers. lets say you spend 150US on a new amp. thats alot of money left over for speakers if you're willing to spend 600-700 €.

I personally own a pair of these speakers and I think they are incredible.

Axiom M22ti


they are 400 US, so well within your pricerange.

many people might say "but they're not studio monitors so they'll be bad for this specific application". Wrong. there is no difference between a 'studio monitor' and a regular high quality speaker. both are designed to reproduce audio signals in a neutral and acurate state. that is the goal of all speaker manufactures.. dont let the term 'studio monitor' fool you. many so called monitors actually colour the sound substancially more than non-monitor speakers (I know that those M-Audio Studiophiles have a slight hump in the uppermidrange if i remember correctly). And these can also be used as nearfields, not a problem.

And Im sure there are many other good speakers you could look into, besides the Axioms.

In conclusion. this is the route I took when looking for a good pair of monitors. some other people swear by their active monitors, and thats fine. I just wanted to let you know that there are more options out there that can potentially give you higher quality audio for the same amount of money (or less).

Oh and on a side note, with all bookshelf sized speakers, a sub is definately required for a substancial punch in the lower end. so look into that too!

bump bc I am also interested in the answers to this question

Nice post Chrono, but you have monitors and monitors.

Good studio monitors are designed to have a frequency response as linear as possible (each frequency is represented as much as the others). Those are very handy in studio's, because with linear frequency response, you can judge your mixes better.

And what you say : there's almost no difference between a good studio monitor and a hifi/audiophile speaker is not right at all. You see, people tend to find a linear response dull sounding. Usually high quality hifi/audiophile speakers are colouring the sound, but in a pleasant way.

As for the amp, that one plays a big role in the colouring of the sound too. Hifi amps usually are warmer sounding too (compare them to Bryston SST's for example and you'll see what I mean).
Passive amplification isn't necessarily bad, because you have control over which components you'll use. But a well designed active monitor has everything designed especially for the model you use. Everything is designed that way it performs at it's best (again, on a well designed system). Not only the amp matters, but the crossover also (which by the way is not that good on the Axiom you mention, first thing you can do to improve the sound is install another one).

As for the sub, you need to take room accoustics in consideration too. In a decent environment good nearfields are more than enough, and you risk changing the tonal balance for the worse if you just a sub for the "punch". And the crossover is more important here than anywhere else.

Then again, good monitors aren't really required to make good mixes (especially dj ones). Anything is better than crappy pc speakers. I use studio monitors because I use them in my studies also.
Power isn't everything either. With nearfield monitors, you don't need masses (as nearfields are too be used near you). Ok more power usually means you got more headroom in a normal use, but I rarely use my monitors at full power (they're 100 W), usually even less than half (louder is not better in mixes)

The Alesis, Behringer and M-audio monitors are all in the same range, each has is own characteristics, and if you got the chance to listen to them beforehand (do that with your favorite cd) do it. The hearing is different on every human. So it's not because I prefer one type, that you'll like it.

Looking at your budget, Mackie and Genelec (what I still consider as the best, the Mackie still have a tendancy to sweeten your mixes more than needed) are out of your league, unless you go for Genelec 1029's, but they are pretty small (amazing sound none the less).

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Thy And what you say : there's almost no difference between a good studio monitor and a hifi/audiophile speaker is not right at all. You see, people tend to find a linear response dull sounding. Usually high quality hifi/audiophile speakers are colouring the sound, but in a pleasant way.

I really have to disagree. Audiophile speakers are meant to disappear. they are supposed to reproduce the sound characteristics EXACTLY as they were recorded by the sound engineer. This means having a completely linear response. Speakers that do colour the sound are usually the cheaper mass-marketed ones, like sony's and boss. they have artifical boosts in the treble and low end because that is supposed to appeal more towards the general public who dont really know good audio.

quote:

As for the amp, that one plays a big role in the colouring of the sound too. Hifi amps usually are warmer sounding too (compare them to Bryston SST's for example and you'll see what I mean).

Again, the colouring of sound created by an amp is very marginal. There is a strong base in audiophile cicles that swear solid state amplifiers with exactly the same response curves do not sound ANY different. I personally think that amplifiers do contribute slightly to sound colouration (if you can call it that..). This colouration will be present in all moderately priced active monitors too. Why? because virtually transparent amplifiers cost alot of money. Its simple really, they use much higher quality components, and cost more.
And this is also a good point towards having passive speakers; you can always upgrade your amp later.

quote:

crossover also (which by the way is not that good on the Axiom you mention, first thing you can do to improve the sound is install another one).

I dont really have much experience with adjusting crossovers, so I cant comment here Have you heard these Axioms? Why do you consider the crossover to be inadequite?

quote:

As for the sub, you need to take room accoustics in consideration too. In a decent environment good nearfields are more than enough, and you risk changing the tonal balance for the worse if you just a sub for the "punch". And the crossover is more important here than anywhere else.

I would disagree that most moderately priced nearfileds can perform adaquately in the lower range. But thats really to be expected.. due to their size and specific components used. I can guarante you that those Studiophiles, when down at 37Hz will not produce a 'good' bass, compared to lets say a Hsu VTF-2. And about the crossoever, if you're worried about having a seamless integration of speakers and sub, then there are many amplifiers that offer crossover calibration. I just picked up a Panasonic SA-HE70 for 200.00 CND, and it offeres these features. Not to mention, most subs have their own crossover adjustment. I really could not imagine using monitors without a sub, especially for this type of music with really puts alot of emphasis on the lower frequencies.

The line between audiophile/HT speakers and studio monitors has become increasingly blurred. I have talked to other people who have chosen to use Axioms as monitors in their studios, as well as people who use the Paradigm Reference Studio's for home theater (also a very nice speaker series. It was noted that the Studio 20's v2, which cost $300US more than the M22ti's, actually had a slight midrange hump, despite the fact that they are designated studio monitors).

I'm just trying to give you a different perspective on this issue

Well sorry to disagree, but I find most audiophile stuff to color the sound massively (and I'm not talking cheap stuff), but like I said, it's for the better. We humans just like that sound better. Like I said, true linear response is rarely liked by us.
The amps may not color the sound like you would have sound coloration in speakers, but it's more in a way of transient response. And yes, the big ass studio amps cost much, because they have expensive components that handle things better.

You know, the most linear setup I've ever heard are Earthworks Sigma 6.2's on a Bryston amp. You can't really tell about linearity and transparency if you haven't heard these. Everything has been done to ensure the best possible rendement (time aligned cones etc...). It may only go down to 40 Hz, but I've never heard something so clean at that range. Earthworks 6.3 go even lower. Yes they are passive, but an active version will not take long. But yes the price is high too, 7000 minimum for the 6.3 without amp (actually I'm saving up for those, as I intend to continue in mastering, which they are the absolute best for).
Saying your speakers have have a 20-20 frequency response is easy. it depends on how strict you take this. If you mean with a margin of 3 dB that's decent, but that means you can have pretty non linear system also.

I won't disagree with you about the Axioms, they are excellent. But they kinda skimped on the crossover, it's basically a first order x-over with an iron core and some basic capacitators (those you can find in a normal electronics shop). Because of that it has a slight phase problem around the xover frequency, which makes everything sound a little but muffled. I've heard a modified version (sadly I can't tell you what where the exact components they changed, cuz I was too dumb to ask , it involved some air inductors and a high precision resistor, but can't say more). The m22 sounds good stock, but the difference with that modified version is stunning. Much more detail, crispness...

You see, in an audio system, the sound you get is as qualitative as the weakest link (and sadly to say, it's still the speaker in a complete system). Even crossovers, hell even cables can change things dramatically.

So clearly we both have our own idea's (and that's good, would be boring if everyone agreed, and catastrophic for manufacturers no). BTW have you ever head the Dynaudio Evidence masters? They are said to be the best sounding speakers around (coupled to a great amp, not included). I can agree. I probably won't even be able to pay even one of them of the end of my career, but for a professional approach, I'll take the Earthworks any day (well, any day I got enough bux of course).

For most people those systems are overkill though. You'd be amazed how much people find the sound coming out of mini hifi chains "amazing" etc... All depends on how high you place the bar.

I've never heard the Sigma's, but at that high price, I bet they do sound good (and so would many other speakers at that price). I havnt noticed this muffled sound you speak of in the axioms caused by the xover, if I perhapse did an A/B comparision to some other speakers I might pick up on it.. but for only $400 I still maintain that they are a very strong competitor.

"even cables can change things dramatically."
hahaha this is another debate here. I have heard of (I dont have the sources) double blind listening tests that make it clear people can't tell the difference between a regular 14g speaker wire from radioshack and a $2,000 premium one. in my opinion I think its more of a psychoacoustic matter, people who invest all that money into cables hear a difference in the sound because their mind is trying to rationalize their purchase by telling them it wasnt a waste of money, and that there is a noticable difference when in reality it sounds the same. anyways...

No I havnt heard those Evidence speakers.. at $85,000 i dont even know of a retailer that would stock them, lol. but I guess the absolute best reference speaker system would have to be a pair of German Physiks Tiebreak's and a Krell Master Reference amp.
wouldnt mind that system.

Oh I agree with you, the cables don't have to be expensive to sound better. The biggest difference is in the impedance, and usually that depends on the gauge.

The most flagrant example are the stock cables that come with SL1200's (yeah, we were talking about high end audio, but it's still the dj booth forum, so better stay a little on topic). I would qualify them as typical radio shack crap. Changing them for a decent OFC cable does make a difference (and really for barely more than a half meter you won't pay 2000$), and no psychology there. That's the first thing I recommend doing on turntables.

For this case I partly agree with you, usually those uber expensive cables are hoaxes.

PS : yup I even heard the Physiks (the cool part about studying for sound engineer and having a big interest in it), and frankly they disappointed me. They're even more expensive than the Dynaudio's, and frankly, the Evidence sounded more subtle to me, but at that range it comes even more down to personal taste. And I would mind having such system at home. For that price I'd even shoot my mom when she would try to dust off them mofo's.

thanxx for all yor infos !!! maybe i'll go for the studiophiles ... seem perfect to me !!

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Bump for everyone who has to start a thread on monitor speakers!