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colonelcrisp
Isn't Batshit Crazy



Registered: Apr 2003
Location: Ottawa
Science vs. Creationism

Its about time the science and intellectual community took a stand against the blatant pollution of lies being propagated throughout the educational systems. Interesting to note that it isn't just in the US, that Canada and even Europe has been affected to some extent.

quote:
Science vs. creationism
Scientific community mobilizes defence of evolution
March 11, 2008

I never could understand, as a young television reporter in Saskatchewan, why scientists refused to defend evolution. It was 1980 and a controversy had erupted over creationism being taught in some science classes. I might have been asking scientists to debate the Flat Earth Society, so withering were their responses to my requests for an interview.

Paleontologist David Eberth explained to me last week that scientists used to believe debating the subject would imply creationism and evolution had equal merit.

"After they were done saying what a pile of poo this whole scientific creationism is, [they] basically wiped their hands of it and walked away," said Eberth, a senior research scientist at the Royal Tyrell Museum in Drumheller, Alta.

Big mistake. Being left with the ring to itself, creationism reinvented itself as intelligent design, with the claim that life is too complex to have developed randomly. Now, said Eberth, the science community is seeing "the negative education, political and socio-economic fallout for not engaging."

In books, in editorials, in speeches and on the internet, scientists are now defending evolution on any platform they can get. What's got them so rattled?

"It's the threat to science," said Daniel Fairbanks, author of the new book Relics of Eden.

The Brigham Young University geneticist — and Christian — writes that creationists and advocates of intelligent design "have successfully promoted history's most sophisticated and generously funded attack on science, claiming that evolution, human evolution in particular, is a 'theory in crisis.'"

Far from being a "theory in crisis," evolution is a fact.

In the 149 years since the publication of Darwin's On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, scientists have uncovered a veritable Noah's flood of fossil and DNA proof that species evolved.

The evidence is, oh… pick a superlative: overwhelming, irrefutable, incontrovertible, up there with the earth is round and revolves around the sun.

Yet Christian creationism — the belief that the Bible is literally true — isn't just holding its ground in the face of all that evidence. It's seizing new territory, or so Eberth, Fairbanks and many others fear.

In Texas, Florida, Kentucky, Kansas, Arkansas and elsewhere, Fairbanks writes, a powerful Christian fundamentalist movement conducts an "ongoing assault on science … whose political objectives are to cast doubt on the reality of evolution and to restrict or dilute it in the science curricula of public schools."

Science consistently wins in the courts. The most recent triumph was the 2005 decision against the Dover, Pennsylvania school district, where the courts ruled intelligent design was religion, not science. And ruled it unconstitutional.

Yet despite winning those battles, science is losing the war, according to Eberth. "We have a whole generation of kids in the U.S. who are having this stuff pumped down their throats," he said.

Evolution not in the curriculum

In Canada, the debate is less noisy. In fact, you might not be aware there is a debate.

Still, I was floored when Banff resident Scott Rowed, a member of the Centre for Inquiry, told me his daughter graduated from Grade 12 in Alberta without ever hearing the word "evolution."

"The underpinnings of our life sciences courses, our curriculum, are all based on the assumptions of evolution," said the Alberta Department of Education's Kathy Telfer. But evolution itself is not part of the core curriculum in most Canadian schools.

"It's not unheard of, in fact [it] may be quite common, for students to go through their entire public education without hearing about evolution," Jason Wiles of McGill University's Evolution Education Research Centre told me.

What else worries scientists?

Consider the ascent of Mike Huckabee, former Arkansas governor and for several startling months a serious challenger for the Republican presidential nomination. A creationist, he suggested the U.S. constitution should be amended "so it's in God's standards rather than try to change God's standards."

And survey after survey has found roughly half of Americans believe God created humans in their present form, in a single act, within the last 10,000 years.

Only 22 % of Canadians hold that opinion, according to an Angus Reid poll published last June. Curiously, the same poll found 42 per cent of us agree with the creationist belief that we co-existed with dinosaurs.

In Europe, people used to scratch their heads over the furious evolution debate in the United States. Now they have their own alarums and excursions. The creationists have opened so many fronts that last fall a study by the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe warned, "If we are not careful, the values that are the very essence of the Council of Europe will be under direct threat from creationist fundamentalists."

It's not just a blossoming Christian fundamentalism that alarms the council. It's also Islamic scientific creationism. The report describes how a Turkish book titled The Atlas of Creation had been sent to schools in France, Switzerland, Belgium and Spain. The author, Islamist preacher Harun Yahya, calls Darwinism a "ruse of Satan," which, he writes, "is collapsing and causing panic in the Darwinian global empire."

Science takes the offensive

Panic? No. Major concern? Yes.

Enough so that scientists are sending out a stream of books, lectures, and editorials explaining, demonstrating, defending evolution, including in January alone:

* The U.S. National Academy of Sciences published the book Science, Evolution, and Creationism.
* The co-discoverer of the transitional fossil Tiktaalik ("the fish that does pushups") published Your Inner Fish.
* The journal Nature asked the science community to "take every opportunity to promote" evolution.
* A new Journal devoted to teaching evolution was launched.
* 17 U.S. organizations declared evolution education a "must."

And Daniel Fairbanks published Relics of Eden. "There really is a movement going on here," he told me from his Utah office.

Fossils and DNA hold the proof

If fossils hadn't so thoroughly locked up the proof, the evidence Fairbanks presents would finish the job. For our evolutionary history is written in our DNA.

As an undergraduate exploring for fossils in his geology class, Fairbanks had already had to rethink his deeply religious upbringing. Accepting the story the fossils told "was a change in my world view," he said.

As a geneticist, he now studies a different kind of fossil. But the story they tell is the same.

These "relics" of our evolutionary past are segments of DNA, mutations, apparently redundant, which have accumulated over time and now clutter up the genomes of humans and other species.

"Each relic, we presume, was inherited from a common ancestor," Fairbanks told me. "The closer they are, then the more recent the common ancestor of that organism must be, and the more distant they are — that is, the more diverged they are — then the more distant the common ancestor must be."

The sequencing of three primate genomes — human, chimpanzee, and the rhesus macaque — was "a scientific opportunity unlike any that we have ever had before," said Fairbanks.

The chapters that demonstrate how genomes prove the evolutionary relationship may demand concentration from those of us without a degree in biology. Be prepared to learn about transposons, retroelements and pseudogenes. The payoff is in understanding why scientists find the evidence indisputable.

Fairbanks spent a lot of time on the primates because he has found that while many people are willing to believe other species have evolved, they draw the line at humans. "They just can't get beyond the point that we share common ancestry with other animals," he said.

Evolution, atheism and God

Fairbanks is troubled by the dichotomy laid out by two extremes: creationists and atheists. Both make the claim, he said, that you must believe in either evolution or God. You can't believe in both.

He himself has no trouble marrying the two in his personal life, but adds: "If one accepts that dichotomy, then the study of science is frightening. It seems to be something that is the enemy of religion when in fact it is not."

Perhaps atheists such as Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens have done more to damage evolution than to champion it.

In fact, rather than seeing creationists and evolutionists engaging in battle, Fairbanks has embraced the call made by one enthusiastic reviewer of his book for an "intellectual peace corps."

"Say I am a member of it," he told me.

Back in 1980, I finally did find a scientist who thought defending evolution in my news story would be worth his while. Taylor Steen, a biologist and a Christian, told me then that "creationism is bad religion. And it's bad science."

Science and scientists have paid a price for assuming that that simple answer — or none at all — would suffice.

Additional links

There are thousands of other websites where one can pursue these topics. Here are three that are worth exploring:

* The Talk Origins Archive takes an evolutionary perspective but links to sites that support creationism and Intelligent Design.
* One of the most active promoters of the latter point of view is the Institute for Creation Research
* And the Creation Information Portal gives a Canadian viewpoint.


source


___________________
quote:
Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
I have 3 hobbies: gaming, DJing & correcting maladjusted fools on the internet.

quote:
Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
Yeah, I’d like to know what horrible, scarring incident in your childhood turned you into such an ignorant, intellectual-hating philistine?

Old Post Mar-12-2008 15:52  Canada
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Krypton
83.798 g/6.022x10^23



Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Texas

Creationism is not science and never will be. It is a religious philosophy and should be taught and viewed as such.

Old Post Mar-12-2008 16:27  Korea-Democratic Peoples Republic
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Zild
Ten City



Registered: Jun 2004
Location: San Antonio, US : TXTA #156

Most people aren't intelligent enough to handle science. We leave the religious philosophy to them.


___________________
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Kill the women. Eat the children.
It's just one of those days where you want to bend over everyone you know and kiss their ass goodbye with a big sideways boot.

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Old Post Mar-12-2008 16:55  United States
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colonelcrisp
Isn't Batshit Crazy



Registered: Apr 2003
Location: Ottawa

quote:
Originally posted by Zild
Most people aren't intelligent enough to handle science. We leave the religious philosophy to them.


when next to 50% of americans belive that god created humans as we know them in one day and that the earth is only 10,000 years old, can we really afford to continue to let people indoctrinate todays youth with theological garbage and pseudo science?

I think its a dangerous proposition to allow this phenomena to go completely un checked. Essentially we are allowing 50% of a population to become trained religious zealots or at the very least a generation of idiots.

To be honest, the US statistics didnt suprise me one bit, the canadian and european figures did however. I mean i always thought albertans and saskatchewaners were retarded, but wow......


___________________
quote:
Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
I have 3 hobbies: gaming, DJing & correcting maladjusted fools on the internet.

quote:
Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
Yeah, I’d like to know what horrible, scarring incident in your childhood turned you into such an ignorant, intellectual-hating philistine?

Old Post Mar-12-2008 17:30  Canada
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Zild
Ten City



Registered: Jun 2004
Location: San Antonio, US : TXTA #156

Hey you can't force idiots to learn. Anyone who is going to study science in the first place is going to have enough sense to formulate their own opinions, thus avoiding indoctrination.

But seriously religion is and has always been used to control the general population. I say fuck it let the masses stay ignorant and let technocrats rule the world.


___________________
I've never been able to eat a whole baby.
Kill the women. Eat the children.
It's just one of those days where you want to bend over everyone you know and kiss their ass goodbye with a big sideways boot.

Latest Mix

Old Post Mar-12-2008 17:42  United States
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pkcRAISTLIN
arbiter's chief minion



Registered: Jul 2002
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by Krypton
Creationism is not science and never will be. It is a religious philosophy and should be taught and viewed as such.


for the last freakin time, creationism is not a freakin philosophy!


___________________

Old Post Mar-12-2008 22:11  Australia
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Sunsnail
Global Moderator



Registered: Sep 2004
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by colonelcrisp
when next to 50% of americans belive that god created humans as we know them in one day and that the earth is only 10,000 years old, can we really afford to continue to let people indoctrinate todays youth with theological garbage and pseudo science?

I think its a dangerous proposition to allow this phenomena to go completely un checked. Essentially we are allowing 50% of a population to become trained religious zealots or at the very least a generation of idiots.

To be honest, the US statistics didnt suprise me one bit, the canadian and european figures did however. I mean i always thought albertans and saskatchewaners were retarded, but wow......


What do you offer to be done? Telling parents they cant teach religion to their kids?

Old Post Mar-12-2008 22:48 
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pkcRAISTLIN
arbiter's chief minion



Registered: Jul 2002
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by Sunsnail
What do you offer to be done? Telling parents they cant teach religion to their kids?


no, just have formal education counter the bullshit the rest of society feeds them.


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Old Post Mar-12-2008 22:52  Australia
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Magnetonium
Dubstep = Douchestep



Registered: Sep 2001
Location: Port Burwell, Ontario, Canada



Humankind is retarted in general. Thats why our species are doomed. We are so f+cking primitive. This "civilization" will collapse sooner or later. Religious radicals will turn the world upside down and eventually reinstate their cleansing campaigns against the heretics. People are like sheep in general, thats a sad evolutionary trait. Humankind has not evolved to such a level where we can safely exist without harming ourselves or everyone around us and the environment. Whats worse, is that dumb people are exploding in numbers, while the intelligent people who were born with the humankind-saving traits are dying off and not reproducing much. We're f+cked. It won't be long before out current system collapses from any chain of events - be it natural disaster, massive wars, economic/political collapses, etc. - many people will simply resort to primitive tactics in those situations instead of doing something constructive.

And no f+cking education is going to prevent that.


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Old Post Mar-12-2008 23:22  Canada
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Krypton
83.798 g/6.022x10^23



Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Texas

quote:
Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
for the last freakin time, creationism is not a freakin philosophy!


Deducing truth through non-empiracal means. I think creationism is. Then again, you can't cite the definitive definition of philosophy, so if we can't agree on what philosophy is, we're just going to keep going on this circular argument path...

Old Post Mar-12-2008 23:24  Korea-Democratic Peoples Republic
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pkcRAISTLIN
arbiter's chief minion



Registered: Jul 2002
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by Krypton
Deducing truth through non-empiracal means. I think creationism is. Then again, you can't cite the definitive definition of philosophy, so if we can't agree on what philosophy is, we're just going to keep going on this circular argument path...


Philosophy is about reason. Philosophy is about rationalism. Philosphy is about knowledge. Philosophy is about logic.

Creationism is none of these things.


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Old Post Mar-12-2008 23:32  Australia
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noikeee
dubstep convert



Registered: Apr 2002
Location: lost and wandering looking for directions.

People are fucking stupid.


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Old Post Mar-12-2008 23:53  Portugal
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