Become a part of the TranceAddict community!Frequently Asked Questions - Please read this if you haven'tSearch the forums
TranceAddict Forums > DJing / Production / Promotion > DJ Booth > Phase Matching??
Pages (2): [1] 2 »   Last Thread   Next Thread
Share
Author
Thread    Post A Reply
DJ Lazy
Guest



Registered: Not Yet
Location:
Phase Matching??

Ok, I got no problems when I am listening to a track or even some big name DJ's mix, and be able to tell where the phases are and where the next track should be dropped in, But when I get on my decks and start mixing, I start to get lost. I either completely miss it, or I miss the first 8 beat, and then that throws me off when I am mixing out of the playing track. I am never too early cuz that is fixable.

So I am just curious if anyone has any tips for me to help me keep track of where the phases are?

Cheers.

Old Post Jan-15-2004 17:19 
Add  to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
MERiDiAN5i2
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Texas, USA

just listen for the major changes.

it all depends what kinda tracks you are spinning.

generally, listen for:

a) change in melodic pattern, usually on 16's or 32's
b) bassbeat silenced for a bar or two, then comes back (phrase starts)
c) big symbol crashes every 16 or 32.
d) beginning of the beats after a breakdown

those are four basic examples of phrase change points. phrases are generally 16 or 32 beats. "sentences" are a phrase or two, and a paragraph is a few sentences. that's how I look at it.

bottom line: listen for the major changes in both the melody and bassline.

try starting the first beat of a record at these points, and then going from there. things will line up and it will become more obvious the more your successful.

start with the easy stuff: when your playing a record and it breaks down, start the first beat of a new record on the first beat after the breakdown.

Old Post Jan-15-2004 19:45  United States
Click Here to See the Profile for MERiDiAN5i2 Click here to Send MERiDiAN5i2 a Private Message Add MERiDiAN5i2 to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Zombie0729
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Oct 2003
Location: .

well sure, but a phrase simply imply's an added sound to the existing compilation... when you know that sound is coming(which dance music enables usually), thats ur new phrase, if you miss phrase, either bring ur cue record back and wait for the next phrase or speed urs up to however many beats u missed... not too hard. just count in ur head how far behind u got.

Old Post Jan-15-2004 20:44  United States
Click Here to See the Profile for Zombie0729 Add Zombie0729 to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
DJ Lazy
Guest



Registered: Not Yet
Location:

oops.. missed the "r" in Phrase in my title.. LOL...

anyways... thanks for the tips.. i'm not sure if that is what I was looking for, cuz I kinda already knew that stuff... i just seem to not be able to pick it up or somethign when I am mixing.. I can do it easy when I listening to another mix...

Old Post Jan-15-2004 21:40 
Add  to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Dj Flesch
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Indianapolis, USA

Just to clarify the difference between phase and phrase, to be in-phase means to beatmatch. To be in-phrase means that beat 1 of track one is matched with beat 1 on track two. It is where you define the begining of a phrase that matters. Normally trance tracks have phrases that are 64 beats long. It will be 64 beats for the warmup (or about 27 and 54 seconds at 140 bpm). You should notice that at 27 seconds, the track will add a few more instruments compared to just a normal bass beat (some add many, but most wait till 54 seconds). So from there you know certain times at a particular BPM (this is one of the major advantages of cd decks! You can calculate when things are supposed to happen and remember those times to help you phrase match EVERY time!)

If you are having a problem counting the beats in your head, then all you need is to listen to music more. Once you start listening and djing every day then you will naturally pick up on when the new phrase begins. You will also pick up on the point at which you should press play or release your vinyl. This is of course not the same point at which you would mix in, the goal here is to release the record about two full phrases (depending on the tracks) before you plan on mixing in so that you can bring the cue track in on the second phrase right as the third to last phrase (about 1:22 mins before the track ends), or the second to last phrase (about 54 secs before the track ends) depending on how much energy you want to transfer. This of course depends on the two tracks. If you live track is really full of energy and your cue track is a bit less, then you need to wait till the second to last phrase to let the energy transition and climb down on it's own. If you have two tracks that have about the same amount of energy, then mix in at the third to last phrase so that you keep the energy going. Just make sure you know where to start the cue track in order to keep that energy up. Sometimes I run into tracks that I have to cue up 4 or more phrases so that at about 1:48 mins I start mixing in.

To sum up, the main thing to remember is to know your music to know when you need to mix out of the live track and listen to your cue track to see how far in to it you have to mix in to keep the energy level up. If you don't keep the energy level consistent through the transition, then you are basically destroying what you try to build up with your track selection.

As far as getting mixed up to when this happens with vinyl, use a watch/timer etc. Count the beats in your head and get to know your music really really well. Everyone says that only practice will make you good, and this is really true. The only way that it will become instinctual to know when a phrase is begining or ending etc is to listen to music ALL the time!


___________________
When you dance, the DJ takes you on a journey, but he or she is usually not the focus of your experience at a club or festival or wherever you hear the music. Dancing is. Music is.

Old Post Jan-16-2004 23:28  United States
Click Here to See the Profile for Dj Flesch Click here to Send Dj Flesch a Private Message Add Dj Flesch to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
TiksA
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Brisbane

The description Dj Flesch gave you is all nice and mathimatical... but for me it comes natrually. I can be completly not listening or focusing to the song, talking to someone and then all of a sudden I can tune in and know when a new phrase is about to start.

Listening to trance for so long does that to ya...

Old Post Jan-17-2004 02:28  Australia
Click Here to See the Profile for TiksA Click here to Send TiksA a Private Message Add TiksA to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
DJ Lazy
Guest



Registered: Not Yet
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by TiksA
The description Dj Flesch gave you is all nice and mathimatical... but for me it comes natrually. I can be completly not listening or focusing to the song, talking to someone and then all of a sudden I can tune in and know when a new phrase is about to start.

Listening to trance for so long does that to ya...



Thanks but this doesn't really help me...

And DJ Flesch.. thanks for the explanation.. Totally thorough,...

Old Post Jan-17-2004 03:06 
Add  to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Dj Flesch
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Indianapolis, USA

quote:
Originally posted by TiksA
The description Dj Flesch gave you is all nice and mathimatical... but for me it comes natrually. I can be completly not listening or focusing to the song, talking to someone and then all of a sudden I can tune in and know when a new phrase is about to start.

Listening to trance for so long does that to ya...


Well, in order to communicate meaning and understanding with phase and phrase matching, you have to be mathmatical and scientific. Otherwise comments like "it comes naturally" does crap to help others understand that which they are asking help understanding. I think that this is shown by Dj Lazy's post above

I have long told people that you can learn one of two ways. You can understand the logic and science behind DJing and then master the physical skills, or you can experiment and never really delve into anything but the artistic side. IMO, there is only an artistic side if you don't understand the logic and physics behind creating a set. Even reading a crowd is a feedback mechanism. I think that there is a great science to picking out tracks. I won't share my secret, but I'll be posting a set in about a month and you can see how I do for myself


___________________
When you dance, the DJ takes you on a journey, but he or she is usually not the focus of your experience at a club or festival or wherever you hear the music. Dancing is. Music is.

Old Post Jan-17-2004 13:59  United States
Click Here to See the Profile for Dj Flesch Click here to Send Dj Flesch a Private Message Add Dj Flesch to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
BelgianGuru
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Belgium

You really think all the major DJ's are counting steps like that ? Omg ? If you're counting when playing music, go find another hobby/job.


___________________

Old Post Jan-17-2004 15:08  Belgium
Click Here to See the Profile for BelgianGuru Click here to Send BelgianGuru a Private Message Visit BelgianGuru's homepage! Add BelgianGuru to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Dj Flesch
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Indianapolis, USA

The intent of my post was to help someone learn how to tell when the phrases begin and end. I also said in the post that the more you listen to trance, the less you have to count beats. I know this because I don't have to count every beat when I mix. In general I will count maybe about 16 beats before I release the cue track, but I can do this because I can instinctively pick up where the phrase is at by just listening.

It's also pretty poor of you to try to insult someone for counting beats. If it truely is my HOBBY, then what does it matter to you if I count beats? And if I'm a proffessional and count beats, well obviously I'm good enough to be a proffessional. Do you personally know "all the major DJs" and have asked them if they count beats? How do you know that they don't. How do you think that they phrase match as well as they do? It's because they, at least minimally, like I, count beats.


___________________
When you dance, the DJ takes you on a journey, but he or she is usually not the focus of your experience at a club or festival or wherever you hear the music. Dancing is. Music is.

Old Post Jan-17-2004 16:14  United States
Click Here to See the Profile for Dj Flesch Click here to Send Dj Flesch a Private Message Add Dj Flesch to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
razzi
seņor tranceaddict



Registered: Sep 2003
Location: new york

damn flesch ive noticed you get quite a bit of hell on these boards hehe.. i liked your mathematical analysis though, its a great way to help someone whos starting until they really get the feel for it.


also dj lazy: if you already have a song beat matched to the live one, go to your cue, except let it play for 8 beats (check in headphones). that way, when you notice the next phrase in the live track, you have 8 beats to prepare to let go and get the tracks in phrase.

i did that when i first started djing. i know everyone says this, but ill say it again: know your tracks. its the best way to get your songs in phrase without counting etc etc.


___________________
| Download LIVE WNUR 89.3fm Set | bio

Old Post Jan-18-2004 11:45 
Click Here to See the Profile for razzi Click here to Send razzi a Private Message Add razzi to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
raaven
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Apr 2003
Location: The Internet Machine.

quote:
Originally posted by Dj Flesch
The intent of my post was to help someone learn how to tell when the phrases begin and end. I also said in the post that the more you listen to trance, the less you have to count beats. I know this because I don't have to count every beat when I mix. In general I will count maybe about 16 beats before I release the cue track, but I can do this because I can instinctively pick up where the phrase is at by just listening.

It's also pretty poor of you to try to insult someone for counting beats. If it truely is my HOBBY, then what does it matter to you if I count beats? And if I'm a proffessional and count beats, well obviously I'm good enough to be a proffessional. Do you personally know "all the major DJs" and have asked them if they count beats? How do you know that they don't. How do you think that they phrase match as well as they do? It's because they, at least minimally, like I, count beats.



that is very true
whether you think it or not we are counting beats in our head if we want the two tracks to be in phrase. i can hear it in the track but there is still some level of beat counting going on. whether it's head bobbing or foot tapping or whatever. and it is also true that it doesn't matter how you do it, it gets done and as long as the end result is an in phrase mix then it doesn't really matter how you got to it. everyone's style is different. that's what makes it so fun to watch some dj's

Old Post Jan-19-2004 13:21  Canada
Click Here to See the Profile for raaven Click here to Send raaven a Private Message Add raaven to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message

TranceAddict Forums > DJing / Production / Promotion > DJ Booth > Phase Matching??
Post New Thread    Post A Reply

Pages (2): [1] 2 »  
Last Thread   Next Thread
Click here to listen to the sample!Pause playbackHow about this one? [2005] [2]

Click here to listen to the sample!Pause playbackJF Sebastian - "Burden" (lemon 8 mix) [2002]

Show Printable Version | Subscribe to this Thread
Forum Jump:

All times are GMT. The time now is 05:43.

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
[IMG] code is ON
 
Search this Thread:

 
Contact Us - return to tranceaddict

Powered by: Trance Music & vBulletin Forums
Copyright ©2000-2026, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Privacy Statement / DMCA
Support TA!