quote:

Fallujah attack leaves 20 dead, mostly Iraqi police Attack on compound caps bloody week for pro-coalition Iraqis Saturday, February 14, 2004 Posted: 11:35 AM EST (1635 GMT) FALLUJAH, Iraq -- At least 20 people died and dozens of prisoners were set free when insurgents stormed a police station and a civil defense compound at dawn in Fallujah, Saturday, Iraqi sources said. The well-planned attack of about 50 insurgents was the latest in a bloody week for Iraqis working with the coalition. Doctors and other Iraqi sources said most of the dead were police officers and some were civilians. One doctor said four of the dead were suspected insurents At least 30 people were wounded and Fallujah's deputy mayor said 10 suspected attackers were arrested. Saturday's assault led to an hourlong wild gun battle between insurgents and Iraqi security forces that started in downtown Fallujah and flared out. Fallujah, 30 miles west of Baghdad, is the epicenter of of anti-U.S. sentiment in the volatile Sunni Triangle, north and west of the capital. The attackers, armed with rocket-propelled grenades, mortars, and AK-47 machine guns, stormed the central police station and freed nearly 100 prisoners. They also struck the headquarters of the Iraqi Civil Defense Corps, where U.S. Army Gen. John Abizaid's convoy was ambushed Thursday. Abizaid, the head of the U.S. Central Command, and his entourage were unharmed in the attack. Video of the gun battle showed Iraqi police fighting back, but the police appeared overwhelmed. Two U.S. Humvees were seen speeding along a nearby street. A suicide car bomber Wednesday killed 47 people, most of them Iraqi men standing in line to join the new Iraqi army, Iraqi medical officials said. Tuesday a truck bombing killed 55 people near a police station south of Baghdad as Iraqi applicants lined up outside. In two other attacks Tuesday, two pairs of Iraqi police officers were shot as they drove to work in Baghdad, Interior Ministry sources said. More than 600 Iraqi security and police forces have been killed since April. Demonstrations were held in other Iraqi cities Saturday. In Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad, protesters rallied against U.S. military actions and demanded the release of thousands of Iraqi prisoners. The U.S. military is investigating accusations that the U.S. troops abuses Iraqi detainees at the prison. Also Saturday, in Sulamaniyah, part of the Kurdish region in northern Iraq, demonstrators called for Kurdish independence.

So, this is the first time that the insurgents in Iraq engaged in open coflict. Not only that, but they seemed relatively well equiped and have beaten iraqi police completely. It seems like the US forces will have to stay there a bit longer than they want to if they are planning on establishing political stability in Iraq.

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I think it is actually a sign of the Iraqi insurgent's weakness.
They have been unable to launch massive assualts against the Americans, and all there previous attacks on Americans has not moved or swayed public opinion or the way Americans operate or feel to the slightest.

Unable to suceed in terror against the Americans, they move to combat their fellow muslim brothers in hopes of stopping US progress.

I'm suprised how the muslim world is turning a blind eye to this. I know they have always accepted sucidie attacks against non-muslim, but now that they have turned on their own.. most of Arabia still doesn't seem to care... there has been no general outcry against the Iraqi insurgents despite the fact that they have now turned on their muslim breathern.

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they probably think it's the lesser of two evils

To me it's just proof that the capture of Saddam was of little significance to the Iraqi insurgency.

I think it was of more political importance to the public opinion in the US.

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quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus I'm suprised how the muslim world is turning a blind eye to this. I know they have always accepted sucidie attacks against non-muslim, but now that they have turned on their own.. most of Arabia still doesn't seem to care... there has been no general outcry against the Iraqi insurgents despite the fact that they have now turned on their muslim breathern.

for once, i really agree with you here. it's also bad tactics from their side, because in this way they _should_ also get the iraqi population against them...

in my point of view its all a power struggle, certain elements in iraq are trying to out power each other... insurgents vs. americans, kurds vs. arabs, shites vs. sunnis. its all a mess really. In my opinion america has to use more force and power then it currently is to establish themselves as the real power and security force until they can hand that power over to an iraqi government. But sadly the majority of the world doesnt agree with using force .... damn pasificts

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quote:

Originally posted by Izzy in my point of view its all a power struggle, certain elements in iraq are trying to out power each other... insurgents vs. americans, kurds vs. arabs, shites vs. sunnis. its all a mess really. In my opinion america has to use more force and power then it currently is to establish themselves as the real power and security force until they can hand that power over to an iraqi government. But sadly the majority of the world doesnt agree with using force .... damn pasificts

yeah, the iraqis would certainly be much more friendly if the americans used more force

quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew yeah, the iraqis would certainly be much more friendly if the americans used more force

Dead men can't be unfriendly!

But seriously, that messenger the US caught last week had documents that said basically 'we've tried hard, but the Americans aren't leaving.' The al Qaeda/Baathist insurgents have been turning their attacks to Iraqi targets, simply because there are too many armed Americans, and even after we hand over the provisional government, we're not leaving.

So they have to try and get at Iraqi opinion, and I don't see how killing your fellow countrymen (or having al Qaeda kill your fellow countrymen) will engender the support of the average Iraqi.

it's not really that..my dad is from iraq, i am born in kuwait, live in Netherlands now for quite some time, due the first gulf war..

thing you need to understand is...

in the past, iraq was 1 kinda of people..then i think the britsh came, *that was like hunderd of years ago)..forgot what purpouse..

they devided iraq in Summit, and Sjieit(how spell :S)


anyone since then, the releation between those 2 people never got any good(humans are stupid yes)..

Saddam was a summit, he had many followers and i know he is a bad guy, but he treated alot nice, and sadly he was cruel for many others...

now that saddam is gone 80% of iraq(including me) are happy, even alot of summit people, but that leaves the loyal 20% who need saddam..and those are the ones 90% of the cases who bombing their own people ..

they think, america banished saddam, so those police men are helping america now, thats what they think, so bomb them..it's afterall easier..

but like i said, humans are stupid, we invented borders, money politics etc..now we got to deal with it.

quote:

Originally posted by Massive84 it's not really that..my dad is from iraq, i am born in kuwait, live in Netherlands now for quite some time, due the first gulf war.. thing you need to understand is... in the past, iraq was 1 kinda of people..then i think the britsh came, *that was like hunderd of years ago)..forgot what purpouse.. they devided iraq in Summit, and Sjieit(how spell :S) anyone since then, the releation between those 2 people never got any good(humans are stupid yes).. Saddam was a summit, he had many followers and i know he is a bad guy, but he treated alot nice, and sadly he was cruel for many others... now that saddam is gone 80% of iraq(including me) are happy, even alot of summit people, but that leaves the loyal 20% who need saddam..and those are the ones 90% of the cases who bombing their own people ..

I didn't think that was correct so I checked up to make sure but thats not true the devisions were there far before Britsh rule. We (the brits) created Iraq from the 3 differnt provences but the tribes were devided before that between these.

http://www.angelfire.com/nt/Gilgamesh/history.html

Pay particular attention to the Buyid(Shi'ite) section of the history. And the British rule section. Which was all the way I though it was.

Edit: Look around the whole history it's very interesting.

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Last edited by Dervish on Feb-16-2004 at 03:44

it's called civil war. that's what Iraq will soon enter, it's quite inevitiable at this point. As Izzy correctly pointed out, there are too many factions fighitng one another.

The Iraqis, especially the Shiites, are smart. Becuase of all the violence, they will push the U.S. for a speedy, free election to put into place a government that will be Shiite because they represent the majority. And there's no way the US can deny them a free election. Isn't that why they were there in the first place? to restore peace and democracy to Iraq?

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