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Originally posted by imokruok Many Vietnam veterans would have happily strung that bitch up had they been given the opportunity. And here she is, with "JFK" in the background.

ACKK!! HIPPIES ! HIPPIES!! AHHH

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Originally posted by Yoepus ACKK!! HIPPIES ! HIPPIES!! AHHH

yeah because pro-war asshat republicans are so brave

I don't get what this infatuation about the Kerry - Fonda connection is all about.

Kerry served in Vietnam, and not in a cushion-seated plum-position either if I understodd the whole thing correctly. Then after he served in 'Nam he got home and starting protesting the war. Wouldn't any sane person do the same?

Hasn't he also a good record as a poltician trying to raise the concerns of vietnam vets?

The whole thing seems like nit-picking since there isn't much real dirt on the man (although I definetly think he looks funny )

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The problem with Fonda is that she wasn't just protesting the war. She actively supported the communist North Vietnamese position.

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Then after he served in 'Nam he got home and starting protesting the war. Wouldn't any sane person do the same?

Not quite. Most did not come home and start protesting the war, and the "sane" ones who wanted to protest waited to air their concerns until their fellow soldiers were out of harm's way. The anti-war movement is credited with increasing the number of deaths in Vietnam - the NVA knew that maximum body count would give the anti-war people more of a cause. But the movement also created the national culture that caused veterans to be spit on when they returned from combat. If you had been drafted, served your time, and returned home, only to be assaulted by peace activists led by a few of your former infantrymen, how the hell would you feel about it?

One thing that bothers me about Kerry is what he did with the medals he earned in Vietnam. Shortly after returning home and joining the anti-war movement he "threw away" his medals in ceremony held by protestors. He was denouncing the government involvement in Vietnam and wanted to show he would have nothing to do with it. Where are those medals today? Displayed in his Senate office. He now uses those same medals he "threw away" to garner support from veterans and the military and as a memorial to the past military service he at one time denounced. Maybe its just me, but that really hits me the wrong way.

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Originally posted by imokruok The problem with Fonda is that she wasn't just protesting the war. She actively supported the communist North Vietnamese position. Not quite. Most did not come home and start protesting the war, and the "sane" ones who wanted to protest waited to air their concerns until their fellow soldiers were out of harm's way. The anti-war movement is credited with increasing the number of deaths in Vietnam - the NVA knew that maximum body count would give the anti-war people more of a cause. But the movement also created the national culture that caused veterans to be spit on when they returned from combat. If you had been drafted, served your time, and returned home, only to be assaulted by peace activists led by a few of your former infantrymen, how the hell would you feel about it?

Interesting, didn't know that the anti-war movement was credited with an increase in the body-count. In what way did their protest put the Vietnam soldiers into more harm and how was this tracked?

I am aware of the culture that spit on the vets though, and I think that was very despicable, but I thought Kerry, as a vet himself, proposed or supported legislation/programs that were beneficial to the vets.

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Originally posted by NeoPhono One thing that bothers me about Kerry is what he did with the medals he earned in Vietnam. Shortly after returning home and joining the anti-war movement he "threw away" his medals in ceremony held by protestors. He was denouncing the government involvement in Vietnam and wanted to show he would have nothing to do with it. Where are those medals today? Displayed in his Senate office. He now uses those same medals he "threw away" to garner support from veterans and the military and as a memorial to the past military service he at one time denounced. Maybe its just me, but that really hits me the wrong way.

Ah yeah, that's true about Fonda. Totally forgot about that. She did a trip to Hanoi and everything didn't she?

I did not know about the medals though. Kind of a typical political/opportunist move and I'm really not suprised.

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Originally posted by rizen pic yeah because pro-war asshat republicans are so brave

Funny how when Clinton was running, the fact that he was a known draft dodger was downplayed by liberals as completely irrelevant. Now they're attacking Bush for serving in the National Guard, and accusing him of being AWOL without a single shred of proof? Since when did this issue ever matter to liberals? Why are they such 2 faced hypocrites regarding the service issue?


As for Hanoi Jane--didn't she get up and ride a gun like a pony which was pointed toward American troops, or something like that?


btw, great picture--where did you find it? Kerry is recognizable despite being completely blurred in the background. What is it about that face?!

The NVA knew that regardless of American advances (which were occurring on a regular basis), the higher human atrocities would continue to invigorate the anti-war movement. They used the American situation to attack the American army on two fronts - the battlefield, and at home. Can you make a direct correlation on the numbers? No - sorry for implying that. But what you can do is use testimony from NVA officers who talked after the war. It was common knowledge on their side that the anti-war movement could be used as a tool, and it was.

Here's more on what "Hanoi Jane" means for Kerry, from a summary of Chris Matthews on Don Imus.

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MSNBC "Hardball" host and longtime Democrat Chris Matthews said Tuesday that a photo showing Democratic presidential front-runner John Kerry protesting the Vietnam war with "Hanoi" Jane Fonda is a real problem for his party's top candidate. While offering sharp criticism of President Bush for not serving in Vietnam, Matthews told radio host Don Imus Tuesday morning, "You've got the Jane Fonda problem on the other side. The thing with her is, she was on the other side - she was on Hanoi's side during that war. "And I'll tell you," Matthews continued, "everybody I knew, including me, who was against the war - I wouldn't have anything to do with a person who supported Hanoi." Kerry, then head of the anti-war group Vietnam Veterans Against the War, worked closely with Fonda on two war protests; a Sept. 1970 rally in Valley Forge, Penn., where Fonda and Kerry spoke from the back of the same pick-up truck. And a Jan. 1971 protest they called "The Winter Soldier Investigation," where fabricated testimony of U.S. war atrocities was presented.

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Originally posted by imokruok Not quite. Most did not come home and start protesting the war, and the "sane" ones who wanted to protest waited to air their concerns until their fellow soldiers were out of harm's way.

Are you saying they should have protested to stop the war only after the war was over? I'm not following your logic here.

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Originally posted by rizen pic yeah because pro-war asshat republicans are so brave

This was all examined in the 2000 campaign and the allegations were proven to be unfounded.

http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=131

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS...tary/index.html

This is a dead end issue. Dems are going to need to attack the more important issues at hand rather than silly irrelevancies. It didn't work for Clinton and it's not going to work with Bush.

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Personally I couldn't care less about what happened 30 years ago.

I agree with Occrider.

quote:

Originally posted by NeoPhono One thing that bothers me about Kerry is what he did with the medals he earned in Vietnam. Shortly after returning home and joining the anti-war movement he "threw away" his medals in ceremony held by protestors. He was denouncing the government involvement in Vietnam and wanted to show he would have nothing to do with it. Where are those medals today? Displayed in his Senate office. He now uses those same medals he "threw away" to garner support from veterans and the military and as a memorial to the past military service he at one time denounced. Maybe its just me, but that really hits me the wrong way.

I was listening to an interview on Imus with Kerry's biographer.

Actually the ribbons he threw belonged to another soldier that was injured, and he told Kerry to throw them for him.

He kept his medals.

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