I agree with you here, which might be a first. On another note, your new avatar is awesome. I love Kingpin.

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quote:

Originally posted by davedresden oh my fucking god i die, dave

Thanks. Just call me Big Ern.

sex > violence --> Europe > USA

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka Sex Vs. Violence

Make love, not war!

quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew sex > violence --> Europe > USA

Hehe, must say I agree here. US is losing on a critical issue here.

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1+1=10

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka Sex Vs. Violence

Hmm might be, I sort of doubt the leading conclusions. European society is as violent as America, if not more, in its news broadcast, yet the effects of this violence seems to have a "softening" effect on the Europeans, instead of the "hardening" effect achieved when Americans view the same material. Examples are video of Sept 11th (It emboldened Americans against terrorist, weakened Europeans againt it), Iraq, and Balkans.

As for sex, I also believe that Europeans are still more sexually vile then Americans, just ask St. Andrew Perhaps more sex has made them 'soft' because they want to have sex with a lot of people. As opposed to Americans which don't regonize in that common humanity.

quote:

Value vs. Commune

I think this has to do with the fact that the US has no aristocracy, in the USA you call your waiter, Sir! It doesn't get any less informal then that. The only 'honor' the USA seems to have is a Judge, and I still haven't figured that one out. In all European society you have titles, King, Prince, Duke, Lord, Earl, Von, etc. Title creates a fixated aristrocracy instead of a meristocracy, and therefore you both see and Europeans feel it proper for a self-made man to have a harder time being self-made. They like to justify their history by rewarding those fortunate enough to entitlements.
Of course Aristocrates were only awarded these entitlements historically as they portrayted themselves as the 'knights' the caretakers of the peseants, and fought and supported for them. I think this is one reason why higher taxes on the rich in Europe is also more acceptable to Europeans than Americans.

The founding fathers of the USA made it implicit they wanted no such thing in the USA, where it is a land of opprotunity, where a man can make whatever he likes of himself.

There isn't this tradition of 'community' where the Aristocrates are supposed to take care of the poor.

quote:

Structure

I don't know, obviously the USA and EU systems are very similar, however the USA is a federation where as the EU is a confederacy - so the EU is more closely resembling the first USA government, then the current one. Perhaps overtime however the Europeans states will lose thier powers slowly but surely to the Federal government, much as the USA has, although the confederate structure prevents this from being done as easily as a federal system.

well hope you enjoyed my counter-ramblings.

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quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus Perhaps overtime however the Europeans states will lose thier powers slowly but surely to the Federal government, much as the USA has, although the confederate structure prevents this from being done as easily as a federal system.

heh, that will be the day when the Europeans give into a federal style gov't, I think European states have created too much of an identity for themselves to bow down to a central government....the EU is a joke.

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus ... As for sex, I also believe that Europeans are still more sexually vile then Americans, just ask St. Andrew Perhaps more sex has made them 'soft' because they want to have sex with a lot of people. As opposed to Americans which don't regonize in that common humanity.

always thinking with your trigger finger eh? i do think there are some sex issues in Europe, yet i doubt they fall into the troubling realm, such as AIDS/HIV in Africa, or its exponentially growing numbers in Russia. i think the 'problem' is that USers treat sex as a 'problem'. whereas Euros realize that its natural and unstoppable.

how that makes them 'soft' or vile, i dunno. i think you are mistaking diplomacy, or minding their own business for apathy.

quote:

I think this has to do with the fact that the US has no aristocracy, in the USA you call your waiter, Sir! It doesn't get any less informal then that. The only 'honor' the USA seems to have is a Judge, and I still haven't figured that one out. In all European society you have titles, King, Prince, Duke, Lord, Earl, Von, etc. Title creates a fixated aristrocracy instead of a meristocracy, and therefore you both see and Europeans feel it proper for a self-made man to have a harder time being self-made. They like to justify their history by rewarding those fortunate enough to entitlements. Of course Aristocrates were only awarded these entitlements historically as they portrayted themselves as the 'knights' the caretakers of the peseants, and fought and supported for them. I think this is one reason why higher taxes on the rich in Europe is also more acceptable to Europeans than Americans. The founding fathers of the USA made it implicit they wanted no such thing in the USA, where it is a land of opprotunity, where a man can make whatever he likes of himself. There isn't this tradition of 'community' where the Aristocrates are supposed to take care of the poor.

well, i guess the Aristocracy had some function in social welfare, but i really dont think thats the reason.

and furthermore i think that the ideals of the Founding Fathers have been perverted to such a degree today as to the fact most people have no choice in their path, to a large degree. today you can only be rich if you go to a University, and not a trade school, and/or play professional sports. sure that isnt the be all end all, but in Europe at least you can choose one or the other without feeling guilty, or having others feel that for you via jealousy.

i think that social welfare has its roots in Rousseau, etal and all the other kids of Aristocracy, but the response in terms of Govt supported programs came directly from the Depression and ensuing Wars. yet they werent stupid enough to dismantle all those programs as soon as Ronald Reagan's stock point started to drop half a point.

quote:

I don't know, obviously the USA and EU systems are very similar, however the USA is a federation where as the EU is a confederacy - so the EU is more closely resembling the first USA government, then the current one. Perhaps overtime however the Europeans states will lose thier powers slowly but surely to the Federal government, much as the USA has, although the confederate structure prevents this from being done as easily as a federal system. well hope you enjoyed my counter-ramblings.

mm well i responded to your ramblings, not as an attack, just a staging point. im sure you might agree|

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'That's like telling a Kodiak bear to stop fcking older men.'

On a tangent:

Can't you see how the Internet has blurred/blended the lines between different geo-cultures?!

Europe is much more open then the US with sex, well, at least I can speak for Germany here. If you look on the cover of Bild, a newspaper, you will see a girl of the day and a little commentary over her. Or if you watch TV, there is a chance you will see some form of nudity, whether it be a commercial or even on the news. And after about 11:30 pm, then on a couople stations you will just see girls dancing around advirtising for a sex hotline. I personally think sex is health and this kind of relaxs the system a bit. And at the train-stations you will usually see a condom vending machine and "Mach's mit" posters everywhere (do it with a condom). Germany is also more open to contraception which I find an important detail.

If Janet were to pop a boob in Germany, the people would probably say, "It's about damn time."

quote:

Originally posted by biznology always thinking with your trigger finger eh? i do think there are some sex issues in Europe, yet i doubt they fall into the troubling realm, such as AIDS/HIV in Africa, or its exponentially growing numbers in Russia. i think the 'problem' is that USers treat sex as a 'problem'. whereas Euros realize that its natural and unstoppable. how that makes them 'soft' or vile, i dunno. i think you are mistaking diplomacy, or minding their own business for apathy.

The sex problems I were getting at is that the Europeans tend to be larger pedophiles and sex slave consumers then Americans. I make this conclusion based on some figures I remember from 'sex tourism' numbers to places like Thailand and South America, and recent INTERPOL investigations into the matter.. of course I might be wrong, so please look for figures and make up your own mind.

This "vile" sex culture would be opposed to the "vile" violence culture in America, where as Europeans like to have a sex with a transgender thai boy, Americans prefer raiding a school with guns ever now and then.

quote:

well, i guess the Aristocracy had some function in social welfare, but i really dont think thats the reason.

The history of the aristrocracy, although unclear, seems to have risen from the fuedal system where the baron, or aristocrate is in charge of law, order, and the welfare of his serfs.

quote:

and furthermore i think that the ideals of the Founding Fathers have been perverted to such a degree today as to the fact most people have no choice in their path, to a large degree. today you can only be rich if you go to a University, and not a trade school, and/or play professional sports. sure that isnt the be all end all, but in Europe at least you can choose one or the other without feeling guilty, or having others feel that for you via jealousy.

I don't know exactly what you are getting at here, after all the richest man in the world (who lives in the USA) happens to not even have a college education. In fact countless billionares in America have become billionares without the aid of university, such as Michael Dell. Also it is now common for many sports players to not even play in University but go directly to pros.

I don't think having a highly educated work force is necessiarly a bad thing, and I don't understand your point here that their is no degree of choice. I don't think this degree is different in any other country. If you want to be rich, you have to be smart, is that really different?

quote:

i think that social welfare has its roots in Rousseau, etal and all the other kids of Aristocracy

No not Rousseau, that was during the enlightenment, a great deal afterwords. Aristocracies, although notably always existant in our history prevailed in Europe as a ruling phenomena greatly during and after the end of the Dark Ages.

quote:

mm well i responded to your ramblings, not as an attack, just a staging point. im sure you might agree|

A staging point for what?

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