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MisterOpus1
Grumpy Old Fart



Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Kansas City
Pentagon's Secret "Scream" Weapon

I must say this seems both interesting and scary at the same time. What kind of testing has been done prior to it's actual use? Anyone else heard of this kind of stuff (no pun intended)?

quote:
The Pentagon's Secret Scream
By William M. Arkin
The Los Angeles Times

Monday 08 March 2004

Sonic devices that can inflict pain--or even permanent deafness--are being deployed.

SOUTH POMFRET, Vt. — Marines arriving in Iraq this month as part of a massive troop rotation will bring with them a high-tech weapon never before used in combat — or in peacekeeping. The device is a powerful megaphone the size of a satellite dish that can deliver recorded warnings in Arabic and, on command, emit a piercing tone so excruciating to humans, its boosters say, that it causes crowds to disperse, clears buildings and repels intruders.

"[For] most people, even if they plug their ears, [the device] will produce the equivalent of an instant migraine," says Woody Norris, chairman of American Technology Corp., the San Diego firm that produces the weapon. "It will knock [some people] on their knees."

American Technology says its new product "is designed to determine intent, change behavior and support various rules of engagement." The company is careful in its public relations not to refer to the megaphone as a weapon, or to dwell on the debilitating pain American forces will be able to deliver with it. The military has been equally reticent on the subject.

And that's a problem. The new sound weapon might, in some scenarios, save lives. It might provide a good alternative to lethal force in riot situations, as its proponents assert. But the U.S. is making a huge mistake by trying to quietly deploy a new pain-inducing weapon without first airing all of the legal, policy and human rights issues associated with it.

This is a weapon unlike any other used by the military, and it is certain to provoke public outcry and the conspiracy theories that often greet new U.S. military technology. If the military feels that its new-style weaponry brings something important to the battlefield, and if testing has shown it to be safe, then why not make our reasoning — and research — transparent to the world?

Nonlethal weapons have been promoted by a small circle of boosters for nearly 15 years as something increasingly necessary for the U.S. military in its growing peacekeeping, urban-combat and force-protection missions. Some of the weaponry championed by the group, like rubber bullets, flash-bang grenades and, more recently, electromuscular disruptive devices, or Tasers, has already been deployed.

But the more exotic weapons — including acoustic, laser, and high-powered microwave devices — have not until now been fielded, held up by legal and ethical questions. Despite intense lobbying, over the years the Pentagon leadership has been skeptical of such "wonder weapons." In 1995, then-Secretary of Defense William Perry decided to ban Pentagon development of nonlethal laser weapons intended to permanently blind. His decision led to a subsequent international ban.

So shouldn't we have a similar discussion about high-intensity sound, which can cause permanent hearing loss or even cellular damage? The new megaphone being deployed to Iraq can operate at 145 decibels at 300 yards, according to American Technology, well above the normal threshold for pain. The company posits a scenario in which Al Qaeda terrorists would run screaming from caves after being subjected to a blast of high-decibel sound from the devices, their hands covering their ears. But in Baghdad or other Iraqi towns, where there are crowds and buildings, the sick and elderly, as well as children, are likely to be in the weapon's range.

Proponents of nonlethal weapons argue that pain and hearing loss, if they were to occur, are certainly preferable to death, which is always possible when lethal force is applied. But this argument ignores realities on the ground. Last week, as I watched televised images of angry Iraqis pelting U.S. soldiers with rocks when they arrived to assist those injured in suicide bombings at mosques, I couldn't help but wonder whether the presence of a sound weapon to disperse those crowds would just escalate hostilities.

Last month, the Council on Foreign Relations issued a task force report on nonlethal weapons, arguing that their widespread availability might have helped in the immediate post-combat period in Iraq to reduce looting and sabotage. The council threw its weight behind greater investment in these technologies partly based on a Joint Chiefs of Staff "mission needs statement" signed last December. "U.S. military forces lack the ability to engage targets located where the application of lethal [weapon fire] would be counterproductive to overall campaign objectives," the Joint Chiefs concluded.

The Council on Foreign Relations recognized that the effect of nonlethal weapons is mostly "psychological — persuading people that they would much rather be someplace else, or on our side rather than opposing U.S. military forces." It warned that "television coverage of encounters involving [nonlethal weapons] can still be repugnant, and it would be desirable to provide reliable information to minimize unwarranted criticism."

Yet after paying lip service to the very psychological and political fallout that could result from the employment of novel technologies like acoustic weapons or high-powered microwaves, the council task force urged that prototype nonlethal weapons — that is, weapons just like American Technology's new sound weapon — "be placed with our operating forces" to test their efficacy and create greater demand among combat commanders.

Is actual combat in a foreign country the appropriate place to test a new weapon? Apparently, we are about to find out.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion...1,2725327.story


___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

Old Post Mar-09-2004 17:47  United States
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Arbiter
Naked Power Organ



Registered: May 2002
Location:

Besides the fact that I've been using similar tactics to fend off telemarketers for years, I don't know much about this. It sounds kind of stupid, though... and I can't say I'm happy about paying for it.

Old Post Mar-09-2004 17:59 
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occrider
Traveladdict



Registered: Oct 2000
Location: New York

Heh ... I saw a story about this on the history channel. I think that they stated on the show that the sound waves can be concentrated in a narrow cone rather than simply pointing speakers in a general direction and blasting everyone. I don't see why we have to sit on it for 20 years before using it. That seems like it woudl be a beurocratic snafu to me

Anyway here's a cnn article without the editorial.

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/TECH/pt...onic.weapon.ap/

Hmmm not sure if it's worth a $1 million.


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Last edited by occrider on Mar-09-2004 at 18:44

Old Post Mar-09-2004 18:11  United States
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djSlain
[Suspended]



Registered: May 2001
Location: San Diego CA

there was an incident here in san diego having do with sound. I think it was like 3 years ago when Oakie came around. Oakie had done his set, and some local DJ took over the decks. At some point there was a sequence where the room was all lit up in light and this huge bass tone took over and people just got sick, some people vomited and others had huge headaches during the tone.
btw, i heard Oakie was a sound engineer. i'm sure he knows the frequency to do something like this, correct?


they should hire ACME



(looney toons)


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Old Post Mar-09-2004 18:50 
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Shakka
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Feb 2003
Location:

Hey Opus--I know I make periodic reference to it, but have you ever read Atlas Shrugged? To anyone who has, the story you posted sounds an awful lot like part of Atlas(written almost 50 years ago).

I refuse to spoil such a great book, but to make a long story short a somewhat militant wing of the government, seeking to further control the minds of the people, creates a sonic device which is bascially capable of destroying anyone and anything by use of intensely focused soundwaves. In the book they demonstrate the effectiveness of the weapon by focusing/testing it on a small farmhouse and a group of sheep. The machine made no audible sounds, but it's focus and strength effectively level the farm house and instantly kill the sheep. There's way too much other plot involved to discuss this if you haven't read the book or don't know anything about it.

Anyway, I just found it to be a funny(albeit somewhat frightening) coincidence that a story like this should surface. It's one of my favorite books and I highly recommend it to anyone who likes a great philosophical/fictional story. (Warning, it is 1100 pages!).

Cheers!

Old Post Mar-09-2004 18:57  United States
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MisterOpus1
Grumpy Old Fart



Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Kansas City

quote:
Originally posted by Shakka
Hey Opus--I know I make periodic reference to it, but have you ever read Atlas Shrugged? To anyone who has, the story you posted sounds an awful lot like part of Atlas(written almost 50 years ago).

I refuse to spoil such a great book, but to make a long story short a somewhat militant wing of the government, seeking to further control the minds of the people, creates a sonic device which is bascially capable of destroying anyone and anything by use of intensely focused soundwaves. In the book they demonstrate the effectiveness of the weapon by focusing/testing it on a small farmhouse and a group of sheep. The machine made no audible sounds, but it's focus and strength effectively level the farm house and instantly kill the sheep. There's way too much other plot involved to discuss this if you haven't read the book or don't know anything about it.

Anyway, I just found it to be a funny(albeit somewhat frightening) coincidence that a story like this should surface. It's one of my favorite books and I highly recommend it to anyone who likes a great philosophical/fictional story. (Warning, it is 1100 pages!).

Cheers!


Funny you should mention that. I was at our local Border's on a search for "The Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy" (thanks Occ) when I overheard a conversation between a group of folks about it. Completely forgot about that until now.

Welp, yet another book to jot down for future reading. Thanx for the tip.


___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

Old Post Mar-09-2004 20:10  United States
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NeoPhono
Übermensch



Registered: Sep 2003
Location: In Orbit

quote:
Originally posted by djSlain
there was an incident here in san diego having do with sound. I think it was like 3 years ago when Oakie came around. Oakie had done his set, and some local DJ took over the decks. At some point there was a sequence where the room was all lit up in light and this huge bass tone took over and people just got sick, some people vomited and others had huge headaches during the tone.
btw, i heard Oakie was a sound engineer. i'm sure he knows the frequency to do something like this, correct?


they should hire ACME



(looney toons)


That sounds a little like the infamous "brown note." Has anyone heard of this mythical musical creation? Apparantly there this a bass note, which at a certain frequency causes you to shit yourself. South Park did an episode about it (funny as hell), but I rememeber hearing about it years ago.

I think your story may have something to do with infrasound. Here's a quick link.

LINKER

Old Post Mar-09-2004 20:39  United States
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Shakka
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Feb 2003
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by NeoPhono
That sounds a little like the infamous "brown note." Has anyone heard of this mythical musical creation? Apparantly there this a bass note, which at a certain frequency causes you to shit yourself. South Park did an episode about it (funny as hell), but I rememeber hearing about it years ago.


I thought South Park completely created that concept. You're telling me that there really is such a note? That episode was hilarious. BTW, new season starts next Wednesday.

Old Post Mar-09-2004 21:43  United States
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malek
drinks your milkshake!



Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Montréal

how about the soldiers? what do they wear to protect themselves?


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Old Post Mar-09-2004 22:26 
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occrider
Traveladdict



Registered: Oct 2000
Location: New York

[
quote:
Originally posted by ahlamalek
how about the soldiers? what do they wear to protect themselves?


Nothing. It's a focused beam of sound similar to a laser I guess. So unless they're going to be pointing it at each other for kicks, I think they'll be unaffected.

Here's the tech description from their website:

http://www.atcsd.com/tl_hss.html

And here's a more laymen's oriented site:

http://www.popsci.com/popsci/scienc...,351353,00.html

Actually looks pretty cool with a lot of civilian applications. If I had money I'd buy stocks.


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Old Post Mar-09-2004 22:44  United States
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NeoPhono
Übermensch



Registered: Sep 2003
Location: In Orbit

quote:
Originally posted by Shakka
I thought South Park completely created that concept. You're telling me that there really is such a note? That episode was hilarious. BTW, new season starts next Wednesday.


It was actually around before the South Park skit. I don't think the note really exists, but I remember joking about it years before South Park came out (at least that episode). If it did exist, I would put it at the end of every one of my songs.

Old Post Mar-09-2004 22:47  United States
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tathi
wanderlust



Registered: Jan 2003
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by Shakka
Hey Opus--I know I make periodic reference to it, but have you ever read Atlas Shrugged? To anyone who has, the story you posted sounds an awful lot like part of Atlas(written almost 50 years ago).

I refuse to spoil such a great book, but to make a long story short a somewhat militant wing of the government, seeking to further control the minds of the people, creates a sonic device which is bascially capable of destroying anyone and anything by use of intensely focused soundwaves. In the book they demonstrate the effectiveness of the weapon by focusing/testing it on a small farmhouse and a group of sheep. The machine made no audible sounds, but it's focus and strength effectively level the farm house and instantly kill the sheep. There's way too much other plot involved to discuss this if you haven't read the book or don't know anything about it.

Anyway, I just found it to be a funny(albeit somewhat frightening) coincidence that a story like this should surface. It's one of my favorite books and I highly recommend it to anyone who likes a great philosophical/fictional story. (Warning, it is 1100 pages!).

Cheers!


Actually sounds familiar to a weapon in Frank Herbert's Dune, also one of the greatest books ever written and is about 50 years old

Old Post Mar-09-2004 23:00  Australia
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