Is there an easy way to route a delay signal (I'm using fruity 4.1 producers) so that the only output I get is the delayed portion of the signal, and not the original sound?

I may not be explaining myself well. Let's say a delayed soujnd looks like this, where 'A' is the original sound, and 'a' is the delay added to it:

A-a-a-a-A-a-a-a

What I want to be able to do is have just this:

-a-a-a- -a-a-a

I've figured out (I think) a pretty clunky way of doing it: record the sound both dry and wet. invert the phase of the dry sample, play with the wet, and they should cancel each other out, leaving only the delay line, right? That would be far too annoying to do (but if it's the only way...), so I want a simpler solution.

Help, anyone? Thanks in advance.

Wouldn't the wet only setting acheive that since its playing no original part of the sound? the -a-a-a--a-a-a pattern refers to only the delay playing right?

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Sort of... but from what i can tell (or maybe it's just the plugins I use), the wet/dry mix setting still contains the original sample... wet/dry just refers to how loud the delay is, if that makes sense.

i think what you're talking about is a gated effect/gated delay.

or maybe you're talking about the ammount of echo's that cmoe back.

i know in reason you can set that (e.g. 1, 2, 3, 4, etc. etc. echos)

Use fruity delay 2 and turn the dry volume to 0.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ-Fuq Use fruity delay 2 and turn the dry volume to 0.

the simplest yet most effective response

Well I don't completely remember how the effects routing works in Fruity, but I'll explain how you'll use a delay usually.

Delay is a temporal effect, so you'll generally use it as an aux/fx send (as opposed to an insert send). I see lot's of people using delay on an insert. Of course everyone can use his own method, but that's not the usual way to use a delay. Use a send.

The effect is 100 % wet. You send an amount of the dry signal (with the send control) to the delay line, and that will output a 100 % wet(only effect) signal, that you will recuparate either in a aux/fx send return or in a dedicated channel.

Usually you'll use the send in post fader mode. This means that the level of the send follows the level of the actual channel (with delay or reverb for example, it would sound unnatural if you decrease the level of the dry source signal, and the reverb/delay just stays at the same amount. You want it to follow the source level).
If you just want the wet effect, use a prefader send (this means the send level is completely independent of the channel fader). Close the actual level of the source signal (not mute, some sends are affected by that) and increase the send to the delay line by the appropriate amount.

Look into the effects routing of Fruity to find a solution. Any decent music software should have insert send/return, and pre/post aux send/returns.

Last edited by Dj Thy on Apr-18-2004 at 20:08

Wet refers to the effect on the signal.
Dry refers to the original signal with no effect.

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quote:

Originally posted by Dj Thy Well I don't completely remember how the effects routing works in Fruity, but I'll explain how you'll use a delay usually. Delay is a temporal effect, so you'll generally use it as an aux/fx send (as opposed to an insert send). I see lot's of people using delay on an insert. Of course everyone can use his own method, but that's not the usual way to use a delay. Use a send. The effect is 100 % wet. You send an amount of the dry signal (with the send control) to the delay line, and that will output a 100 % wet(only effect) signal, that you will recuparate either in a aux/fx send return or in a dedicated channel. Usually you'll use the send in post fader mode. This means that the level of the send follows the level of the actual channel (with delay or reverb for example, it would sound unnatural if you decrease the level of the dry source signal, and the reverb/delay just stays at the same amount. You want it to follow the source level). If you just want the wet effect, use a prefader send (this means the send level is completely independent of the channel fader). Close the actual level of the source signal (not mute, some sends are affected by that) and increase the send to the delay line by the appropriate amount. Look into the effects routing of Fruity to find a solution. Any decent music software should have insert send/return, and pre/post aux send/returns.

i dont really get it exactly thy, why is it better to connect your delay device to the send channels , and not connected it directly to the synth?*software that is*

of cource it saves up CPU, but is there any other advantage?

Well it's more like an unwritten rule in sound engineering.

Spectral (like EQ) and dynamic effects go on inserts, temporal effects go on auxes.

Mainly see it this way (few exceptions of course) :

Inserts, the name explains it, is in series with the signal path. Why spectral and dynamic effects on inserts? Think of it as effects that literally change the signal. Temporal effects on the other hand "add" something to the original signal. It's only normal you use a parallel path (aux) for that instead of a serial (insert) path.

It's also a convenience thing. Putting two signals together in an eq or a compressor, will yield completely different results as putting them in separately. Doing that with a delay or reverb won't (you'll basically put them in the same space). So for saving money and gear, you can use a compressor/eq/limiter/... per channel, but you only use a couple of reverbs/delays on auxes. Of course if you want to put every track in it's own space, using lots of reverbs/delays will be more versatile, but more expensive too, and generally avoided.

Software seemingly changes all that, but you must see it as a continuation of the old analog days. I'm sorry to say, and I don't want to blame any of you, but most home studio producers have no idea what half of the terms and features of their gear mean and do. They haven't got all the history behind it.
Nowadays with computers, I see lots of people putting a reverb or delay (or both) on every separate channel via inserts. And then they start to ask for functions like freeze, because their comp can't handle it anymore. My advice, unless you have a very good reason to, keep it working the old way. Spectral and dynamic effects on inserts, temporal effects on auxes. Will save you much trouble, and the result is usually the same, for less cost (monetary, or cpu power).

I generally use delays and reverbs as inserts, as that way i don't run into any problems with changing a reverb send, and finding out it's fucking up some other sound. This way, sure, I treat my CPU like an all-you-can-eat buffet, but it gives me more control.

Still... from the responses here, it doesn't seem like there's a simple way to do what I want to do. That's annoying..... wait..... I think I may have just thought of a way. I'm going to have to learn synthEdit to do it, though... I think it would be possible, with the level of customization available in that thing, to route the signal as I want to, and just create a custom delay effect.

Hmm.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ-Fuq Use fruity delay 2 and turn the dry volume to 0.

quote:

Originally posted by kewlness the simplest yet most effective response

Except that doesn't work. All that means is that you've turned up the mix of the effect--you're hearing 100% of the effect, which still includes the original signal. I want the original signal gone.