Although my hopes for an intelligent and serious debate concerning this topic are very small, I'll give it a shot and ask you PDD guys(what did I miss in the last few weeks that you found such a cute name for this forum? ) what you think about the fact that he might run for "presidency" in the upcoming January elections. Even though the majority of Fatah decided on endorsing Abu Mazen, not a small fraction are supporting the imprisoned 45 year old "hero of the streets". Some argue he might turn some sort of "Palestinian Mandela". It's no secret he's by far the most popular man in Palestinian politics today and while he was surely involved (even directly) in several terrorist attacks, I wouldn't rule him out as a promising option for being Israel's negotiating partner. He's got several advantages compared with the older fraction (abu Mazen, Abu Alla etc.):

+ Closeness to the people. He was "with them" all the time, be it during Intifada 1, Oslo and up to Camp David - while Arafat's gang was hanging out in Tunis and only later jumped on the Intifada 1 bandwagon.
+ He knows Israelis. He knows Hebrew perfectly. And if only due to long prison terms. It still enables him to relate to the other side much better than Abu Mazen who lives in a world of theories (he wrote his dissertation on "Zionism" at the Univ. of Moscva) which brings me to
+ Pragmatism. Simple people often positively surprise by acting instead of talking and by going the direct way instead of running circles. I assume that Barghuti would not go one step forward and two back as our beloved Yasser did.
+ Credibility. No record of corruption, but the image of a genuine "hard working" and honest man.

All of that forms an image of a man who is much more likely to convince millions of people to give up on illusions and make compromises. I'm not even saying that I trust or "like" this guy more than any other PLO/Hamas etc. memeber. I even think he's got much more blood on his hands than Abu Mazen. But releasing him and building him to become a new leader should be seriously considered. I twould be a classical act of realpolitik.

___________________
"Those are my principles, if you don't like them... well, I have others.”

Look its simple.

Even if the guy wins the election he won't be released.

Israel fell for that ploy once, it won't fall for it again.


And just because the guy knows hebrew does not mean much. I know many Israelis that know Arabic perfect yet sympathize or understand Arabs little. Further, one would question how much Israeli jail gives insight to "Israeli" society, it might embolden, not difuse him. Remember he is serving for FIVE life terms, he's not there for rehabilitation.

___________________
SAVE ZIONIST MUSTARD: BUY ZIONIST KETCHUP!


Click here to support the free mustard alliance.

Completely disagree with you Yeopus...there's something new

First of all, chances that he might be released are much better than you think...Click here

Avraham Poraz (your Interior PM) has already gone on air and said that under the right circumstances, Barghouti might be released (see prisoner exchange)...a three-way exchange, where Barghouti would be exchanged for Jonathan Pollard and/or Azzam Azzam has already been discussed...even James Baker has gone on CNN making a case for Barghouti's release...

So although chances of him being released are rather slim, they're not as dire as you make it seem...

From a personal perspective, I like the guy a lot...and most Israelis should also, because if they actually think for a second that anyone except for him has any credibility with the Palestinian people, they're sorely mistaken. Good luck trying to bring peace to the region with someone like Abbas, who no one recognizes or respects as a Palestinian leader.

Just because he is loved by the Palestinians doesn't change the fact that the guy is a murderer and has multiple life sentences.

___________________

Ummm so how is this guy in any way different from Arafat? He was a major advocate of the intifada, he rejected the Oslo accords, he insists suicide attacks are "not correct", but he hails some operations of the al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade. The only difference on paper, from what I can see, is that he speaks Hebrew, and that so far, from what we can tell, he's not as corrupt as Arafat. Abbas, on the other hand, is a relative moderate who doesn't approve of any violence, and who the Israelis seem quite willing to negotiate with as they've made some concessions so far. So after 30 years of Arafat, you want to maintain the status quo for another 30 years by electing another guy who's policies are more or less the same?

___________________
Retro ...

It would be a great disservice to the Palestinians (and Israelis) for a criminal (murderer) to lead the Palestinians.

___________________
Nathan Fake - Outhouse (Valentino Kanzyani Remix) || ID PLZ! PVD ID!!!
Disco and classical had sex while watching a sci-fi movie. Their child: trance.

he's dropped out. he supports Abbas
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationw...l=la-home-world

I'm disappointed that Marwan is not running for Presidency anymore. He certainly would have split the Fatah vote. He would have had a Nelson Mandela reputation for sure. He is not tainted by corruption as with other PA officials. At the same time he is not as 'moderate' as Mahmoud Abbas. Abbas has stated that he would like the armed struggle to end so peace talks can begin, while Marwan Barghouti is known for his famous quote "no peace with occupation", that the armed struggle will end hand in hand with the end of occupation and not before it. Marwan supports having peace talks and revolution at the same time. Mandela did the same thing, he negotiated while South Africa was "under fire". Because both Palestinians and Israelis should have security, not only Israelis. I don't trust Abbas as much, I'm afraid of the consessions he might make and afraid for the right of return for the refugees. But if he states clearly his determination not to abandon our rights, then I will support him if he gets elected.

Another alternative: Mustafa Barghouti (a far relative of Marwan) is going to announce his candidacy on Monday. I have been following Mustafa's work for quite some time and I met him in a private meeting when he toured Canada last year. His movement is called Al Mubadara, or the Palestinian National Initiative, www.almubadara.org or www.palestinemonitor.org. It advocates for reform of institutions including elections on all levels and promotes a unified strategy of the leadership. It works for increased participation by Palestinian citizens in nation building, and the participation of Palestinians in the diaspora (outside Palestine). It emphasizes the implementation of UN resolutions and the Right of Return, and is very vocal in stopping the Apartheid Wall. The movement has attracted mostly academics, students, and working people who want an active role in nation building. Mustafa is very highly respected in Palestine and is known by all. I sincerly hope he poses a serious challenge to Abbas in the upcoming election.

___________________
*** Sig will be edited -> see rule #5 regarding political/religious content
Theodore Herzl, founder of the World Zionist Organization: "Spirit the penniless population across the frontier by denying it employment... Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly."

quote:

Originally posted by occrider Ummm so how is this guy in any way different from Arafat? He was a major advocate of the intifada, he rejected the Oslo accords, he insists suicide attacks are "not correct", but he hails some operations of the al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade. The only difference on paper, from what I can see, is that he speaks Hebrew, and that so far, from what we can tell, he's not as corrupt as Arafat. Abbas, on the other hand, is a relative moderate who doesn't approve of any violence, and who the Israelis seem quite willing to negotiate with as they've made some concessions so far. So after 30 years of Arafat, you want to maintain the status quo for another 30 years by electing another guy who's policies are more or less the same?

Exactly my thoughts. It is true that the palestinians trust him, but it really doesn't matter since he's a hardliner who doesn't want to make any concessions.

___________________
1+1=10

I hear that Barghouti was convinced not to run for President on the condition that Fatah launch a large campaign to free him and give him the Vice Presidency afterwards.

___________________
*** Sig will be edited -> see rule #5 regarding political/religious content
Theodore Herzl, founder of the World Zionist Organization: "Spirit the penniless population across the frontier by denying it employment... Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly."

quote:

Originally posted by ShadoWolf It would be a great disservice to the Palestinians (and Israelis) for a criminal (murderer) to lead the Palestinians.

Kinda like Israelis having a murderer like Sharon as their PM? Pot...kettle...black

Marwan Barghouti is running afterall!!

___________________
*** Sig will be edited -> see rule #5 regarding political/religious content
Theodore Herzl, founder of the World Zionist Organization: "Spirit the penniless population across the frontier by denying it employment... Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly."