I'm just sick of hearing about him. He should resign.

When you've got powerful Conservative folks like Trent Lott and neocon Bill Kristol of the Weekly Standard calling for his head, you know his days are numbered.

Let's see, the major underestimation of the cost of war, the location of WMD ("somewhere around Tikrit"?), troop body armour, Abu Ghraib and Gitmo tortures (which more will be revealed in the future), scoffing at your generals for asking for more troops, failure to secure high risk sites after invasion (Al Qua qua anyone?), going along with the liar Chalabi and believing the Iraqi people would welcome us with "open arms", telling your troops to essentially suck it up on the truck armour (and as you aptly point out, having egg on his face from the armour manufacturers), and now this.

I'm thinkin' Bush, the ever-so loyal figure will NOT fire him, but will likely quietly ask him to resign on his own within 6 months.

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Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

Ye that guy really has a big heart....nice post occ....pretty unbelievable really..imagine the hurt and insult to the families involved..unbelievable

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 When you've got powerful Conservative folks like Trent Lott and neocon Bill Kristol of the Weekly Standard calling for his head, you know his days are numbered. Let's see, the major underestimation of the cost of war, the location of WMD ("somewhere around Tikrit"?), troop body armour, Abu Ghraib and Gitmo tortures (which more will be revealed in the future), scoffing at your generals for asking for more troops, failure to secure high risk sites after invasion (Al Qua qua anyone?), going along with the liar Chalabi and believing the Iraqi people would welcome us with "open arms", telling your troops to essentially suck it up on the truck armour (and as you aptly point out, having egg on his face from the armour manufacturers), and now this. I'm thinkin' Bush, the ever-so loyal figure will NOT fire him, but will likely quietly ask him to resign on his own within 6 months.

Imagine if he were a Democrat. He would have been gone yesterday.

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its seems like the bush administration has gone out of their way to go to war. above and beyond. next is a draft, then iran and north korea, and then china ultimately.

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Wonderful ... Rumsfeld gets to put his wrist to work

quote:

MOSUL, Iraq (CNN) -- A lunchtime attack on a U.S. military mess hall in northern Iraq on Tuesday killed 24 people, including Americans and Iraqis, said Lt. Col. Paul Hastings at Camp Marez. Brig. Gen. Carter Ham, commander of Task Force Olympia in Mosul, said the attack -- a large, single explosion -- wounded more than 60 people. The dead include U.S. military personnel, U.S. contractors, foreign contractors and members of the Iraqi army, Ham said. A breakdown of the casualties was not immediately available, and Ham said the incident was being investigated. Jeremy Redmon, a Richmond, Virginia, Times-Dispatch reporter embedded with troops at the base, said the attack "knocked soldiers off their feet and out of their seats," The Associated Press reported. (Full story) Members of the Richmond-based 276th Engineer Battalion were among hundreds of people inside the tent, according to the AP. Islamist Web sites posted a claim of responsibility from a group calling itself Jaish Ansar Al-Sunnah for an attack on "a joint US-Iraqi Ghazlani camp near Mosul at 12 noon Tuesday 21/12/2004." The Associated Press said local Iraqis refer to the camp similarly. The message said that after the attack, "two helicopters were on the scene to airlift the killed and wounded." The message said the group shot video of the operation to be released later. CNN could not confirm the authenticity of the claim. During a White House briefing following Tuesday's attack, spokesman Scott McClellan said President Bush "mourns the loss of life and prays for the families of those who were killed. Our thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their families." CNN personnel who have visited the base said the dining area is a tent-like facility with no hardened protection -- and that soldiers had specifically raised concerns that they could be targeted by insurgents at meal time. One had told CNN it was only a matter of time before there was an attack on the mess hall. Lt. Col. Hastings said: "There is a level of vulnerability when you go in there, and you don't feel like there's a hard roof over your head. And when there's mortar attacks and explosions that happen, there is a level of vulnerability." Overall the base has good protection, Hastings said, and a new dining facility is under construction. Pentagon officials said about 8,500 U.S. troops are in the Mosul area, 3,500 of them from a Stryker Brigade based in Fort Lewis, Washington. Mosul has been a site of repeated attacks in recent weeks. When the U.S. military launched a major offensive in Falluja in November, there was concern some insurgents had fled to Mosul and would launch attacks from there. The U.S. military recently conducted an offensive to try to flush out insurgents in Mosul, but the violence has continued. Tuesday's attack came shortly after British Prime Minister Tony Blair arrived in Baghdad on a surprise visit to Iraq. During a news conference with Iraqi interim Prime Minister Ayad Allawi, Blair called the insurgency "a battle between democracy and terror," in advance of Iraqi elections set for January 30. "On the one side you have people who desperately want to make the democratic process work ... and on the other side, people who are killing and intimidating and trying to destroy a better future for Iraq." (Full story) Iraqi voters are expected to choose a 275-member transitional national assembly. That body will put together a permanent constitution that will go before voters in a referendum. If the law is approved, there will be elections for a permanent government by the end of next year. On Sunday, nearly 70 people died in car bomb attacks in the Shiite Muslim holy cities of Najaf and Karbala. (Full story) During a Monday news conference in Washington, President Bush said "terrorists will attempt to delay the elections, to intimidate people in their country, to disrupt the democratic process in any way they can." Still, he added, "I'm confident that terrorists will fail, the elections will go forward and Iraq will be a democracy that reflects the values and traditions of its people." (Full story) http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/m...main/index.html

Rumsfeld and all the other REMFs of this administration can go F*ck themselves.

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Retro ...

quote:

Originally posted by ::TranceVanDyk:: its seems like the bush administration has gone out of their way to go to war. above and beyond. next is a draft, then iran and north korea, and then china ultimately.

The draft is definatly never going to happen but iran and north korea and china def. have it coming :P

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First thing we learn about emotion, is that it has it's price. A complete paradox. But without control, without restraint, emotion is C H A O S.

quote:

Originally posted by Sevas Stra The draft is definatly never going to happen but iran and north korea and china def. have it coming :P

I dunno. Maybe one of these days but definately not back to back. The Bush administration was an unusual fluke and they're trying to do what they can to make their agenda stay past their reign but other Presidents will be elected and I think it'll eventually return to the way things were before 9/11. The world would never let us have another Iraq anytime soon.

I heard on the radio yesterday that this is actually not a "new" thing. Neither McNamara during Vietnam or the various defense secretaries during WWII signed their letters of condolence. Maybe someone can find a source to prove me wrong, but if this is the case, I'm not sure why we're holding this defense secretary to a different standard than the ones before him.

quote:

Originally posted by NeoPhono I heard on the radio yesterday that this is actually not a "new" thing. Neither McNamara during Vietnam or the various defense secretaries during WWII signed their letters of condolence. Maybe someone can find a source to prove me wrong, but if this is the case, I'm not sure why we're holding this defense secretary to a different standard than the ones before him.

It seems to be standard operating procedure from within the Pentagon:

quote:

And now, apparently, Rumsfeld’s obsession with machines and their efficiency has translated into his using one to replace his own John Hancock on KIA (killed in action) letters to parents and spouses. Two Pentagon-based colonels, who’ve both insisted on anonymity to protect their careers, have indignantly reported that the SecDef has relinquished this sacred duty to a signature device rather than signing the sad documents himself. http://www.sftt.org/cgi-bin/csNews/...562757471877733

Furthermore, if Bush supposedly signs each letter personally, Rumsfeld can't?

quote:

Republican and Democratic members of Congress criticized the embattled Pentagon chief on Sunday for not signing the letters himself all along. “My goodness, that’s the least that we could expect of the secretary of defense, is having some personal attention paid by him,” said Sen. Chuck Hagel, R-Neb., nothing that President Bush signs such letters himself. “If the president of the United States can find time to do that, why can’t the Secretary of Defense?” Hagel, a Vietnam veteran, asked on CBS’ “Face the Nation.” http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?...2925-563245.php

My understanding was that condolence letters in WW2 and Vietnam were deferred to the unit commanders who then personally signed the letters. If the sec-defense is going to take up the duty of sending condolence letters as they have been since Vietnam, than I would expect them to send a signed letter or not send one at all.

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Retro ...

Last edited by occrider on Dec-22-2004 at 15:11

I'm not trying to defend him here (although maybe I am ), but the term "sacred duty" is a little ambiguous to me as to wether this is really something he is obligated to do or something these men feel he should do. I have been scouring the web looking for any kind of precident for this, but I cannot. It appears that soldier's families still recieve letters from unit/company commanders as well as the letters from the President and the Secretary of Defense. From what I have found, the letter from the Secretary of Denfese is something new that goes beyond what has traditionally been done, signed or unsigned.