Their are no set rules (I don't think)! I work on both 16 and 32 bars! On each of the 16 and 32 I add something whether it be percussion, bass layers and or effects at these points (dependent of the style I am producing)! The best thing is to go with what sounds good. Maybe listen to various trance tracks with different styles and learn from that! It helps if you dj cos that way you learn the structure of trance easier imo! To be honest I have sat down once or twice and ripped apart a track ie counting the beats and writing down what comes in and out! I'm probs. talking shit but it worked for me!

there are no rules man! Somepeople might say different but There is no guideline. If you want you tracks played out by djs then I would say a break in and a break out for mixing purposes only. lol And Get to your point by 4 or 5 min into the track.

But again only if you want your tracks to be played by djs. Other then that have fun and do some different shit.

___________________
my life is a drama with a begining, a middle and no end.

the longer intro and outro with the kick playing the more DJ Friendly it is.. try adding new elements every 8 and 16 bars.. but the break u can do pretty much everywhere u like.. put it in a unexcpected place too make it sound more interesting.. as long as it feels right..

___________________


http://soundcloud.com/subtara

quote:

Originally posted by Subtle the longer intro and outro with the kick playing the more DJ Friendly it is..

i agree. i find when trying to mix records with a short intro or outro to be a little annoying. i usually start bringing in my incomming track after the 1st 32 count after the push off. so if the hook is right after that it tends to sound a little sloppy. the transition is too sudden. i usually give myself a good leader and tail to the tracks that i produce. my opinion is don't throw any of those 16 count breaks or changes in at the very beginning or ending either. its a pain in the ass when trying to mix because it will sound not offbeat but offcount. otherwise as far as breaks and breakdowns it doesn't really matter when you do it. the music should literally tell you when the right time is.

http://www.tranceproduction.com/ind...id=37&Itemid=55

___________________
Youtube || Soundcloud || Synth Patch Banks

This may sound dumb, but when I realised I needed to work on understanding arrangement, I decided to go through some tunes and write down their arrangement - this helped me heaps.

I just used letters to represent the different phrases / riffs; each one is a full 16 bars long

For example, here's what i had down for epic ( rusch & murray ). (This is off a mix CD so there's no real intro or outro by the way). Also, it's not entirely accurate but I got out of it what I needed ( e.g. there are more layers of incidental fx and lots of different drum parts that i didn't bother transcribing )

a - tease melody
A - main melody
c - tease chords
C - Rhythmic chords
s - tease strings
S - full strings
d - piano bit
e - bassy / fast rhythm synth
b - melody arp
r - stripped back drums
R - full drums

RRR_rrrRRRRr_RRR_rRRRRrrrrrrr
aaaAAAAAA______aAAAA_________
bbb_________bbBB_____________
_ccCCCCCC__cccCCCCCCCCccccccc
__s_sssSSSS_ssSSSSSSSS_______
_________dd_________dd_______
eee____ee__eeeee__eeee_______


Doing this for a few tunes helped me understand just how many layers / how many parts some people used to make professional trance tracks. It was really interesting to find out how the phrases are recombined with different phrases later in the tune for variation.

I hope this helps mate!

___________________

Monsoon - Astrosurf

quote:

Originally posted by pho mo For example, here's what i had down for epic ( rusch & murray ). (This is off a mix CD so there's no real intro or outro by the way). Also, it's not entirely accurate but I got out of it what I needed ( e.g. there are more layers of incidental fx and lots of different drum parts that i didn't bother transcribing ) a - tease melody A - main melody c - tease chords C - Rhythmic chords s - tease strings S - full strings d - piano bit e - bassy / fast rhythm synth b - melody arp r - stripped back drums R - full drums RRR_rrrRRRRr_RRR_rRRRRrrrrrrr aaaAAAAAA______aAAAA_________ bbb_________bbBB_____________ _ccCCCCCC__cccCCCCCCCCccccccc __s_sssSSSS_ssSSSSSSSS_______ _________dd_________dd_______ eee____ee__eeeee__eeee_______ .... I hope this helps mate!

thats not dumb at all, its really creative. every little bit helps. you know i just thought of something. its harder to figure out structure by listening to your fav mix cd's. try buying a couple singles on cd or vinyl and breaking those down to their more simple parts using the above method or something similar.

Personally I say, go with whatever feels and sounds good to you, cause only then will you create a sound that is yours and possibly find a sound that is new and fresh. Too many people today are caught up in trying to write something new and fresh that follows the "now" sound instead of trying to write the "now" sound of tomorrow.

Most of my trance tracks and alot of coop-tracks I've been involved in have come out of down-tempo experiments of mine, such as The Promise and Epic. Numb was an experimental track and I've got a few more experiments coming up and out in the new year.

Ofcourse, to understand how tracks work, it can be helpful to listen to existing tracks and maybe even reproduce them, but it can also be a trap that gets you caught up in making trance that sounds the same as the stuff that "everyone else" makes. There's no doubt alot of good driving tracks nowadays that come out of amature producers bedrooms, but at the same time, 99 times out of 100, they sound the same as the other 98 standard tracks with different melodies where only one brings something truly different, deep and interesting.

My take on things... hope that helps.

All the best,
// Christian

___________________

Anjunabeats / Captured / Subtraxx / Gesture



http://www.christianrusch.com/