Sorry to steal your thunder m8 but this was already posted in the music discussion forum. but what the heck, i'll post here what i posted there.

Garnier cancles US tour

Last edited by Spacey Orange on Jan-31-2005 at 21:33

sorry i didnt see that.

but dont u think about freedom? do you really support that?

the picture u posted is one the one hand a lil ignorant. garnier does not want to say that he´s not man enough to fill out forms, like you maybe are... lol

the other thing is that i really do not want to give my rivate data also. like bank account, dna - test and such things...

this is just meant to register all the people in a central databse. the result will be that for example - you drive too fast or you throw away your cigarette on the street, they can check that database, make some test and you get your fine.

is that what u want?

i am awaiting either no answer or some kinda answer like the pic above lol. but i hope you people start thinkin about what really happens... not what the television tells you ...

and this is no fun.

btw: youre a bush voter, arent u? hehe

quote:

Originally posted by rockmachine sorry i didnt see that. but dont u think about freedom? do you really support that? the picture u posted is one the one hand a lil ignorant. garnier does not want to say that he´s not man enough to fill out forms, like you maybe are... lol the other thing is that i really do not want to give my rivate data also. like bank account, dna - test and such things... this is just meant to register all the people in a central databse. the result will be that for example - you drive too fast or you throw away your cigarette on the street, they can check that database, make some test and you get your fine. is that what u want? i am awaiting either no answer or some kinda answer like the pic above lol. but i hope you people start thinkin about what really happens... not what the television tells you ... and this is no fun. btw: youre a bush voter, arent u? hehe

yikes!

i see what you're getting at but garnier is not a good example of what you're trying to discuss because everything that he's complaining about are not requirements for a visa (or in his case a temporary worker's visa, not a tourist visa). see my explanation in the MD thread. the requirements are few (a couple of forms), hence the pic.

i think that this is a non-issue. i believe that any country has a right, and should have as its right, to establish whatever criteria, which it deems to be in its best interest, by which to permit or deny people entry into its territory. that is essencial to being soviergn.

but on your broader point of privacy in one's country, i totally agree. but garnier is travelling to another country which is different. he may comply and go or refuse to comply and not go. its his choice. again, i beliec that the requirements are few and not what he stated.

BTW i'm not a george bush supporter.

oki..

the probs i see are:

all the things the US do first come over to europe... the people are discussing here to make a database about everything about single persons.

sure, every country has to do its own rules. so its your right to make rules who can come to the US or not.

but the background is not like this. there are other things which are important, like registering all people, all people´s special data and so on.

imagine you would want to go to the us - ure from - maybe spain. you have to give those persons data about your mother, your grandmother, your income, your bank accounts, your everything.

the thing is that this rule of fear in the US may escalate like a dog who is pushed into a corner - it bites! the result would be war...


this new world order is a serious thing all people on earth have to discuss... there is good information on the web as on visdeo about it. (books? sure lol) i can recommend videos like " the money masters" or books from des griffin....

have a look

greets 2ya

I don't think this has anything to do with terrorism.

And admitteldy I don't know much about the 'new' rules.

However, banks statements and the like were always required for longterm Visa holders to the USA (and for those who wanted to work in the USA just for short periods) to help INS officials decide that this individual is not going to illegally stay in the country instead of returning back to their nation after the visa expires.

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quote:

Originally posted by Spacey Orange the requirements are few (a couple of forms),

As someone who has just completed the process of acquiring a visa for the US I would say that you don't know what you are talking about. I needed to get a visa for participating in a research group in NYC for 6-9 months, with my salary and expenses paid for by my danish employer. That is, I didn't even need a work permit. Here is what I had to do:

* Get a DS-2019 form - which is a form that is issued in the US based on information that they get from you. A lot of emailing back and forth over the course of some weeks.
* Fill out forms DS-156, DS-157, and DS-158. They include parts where you should list your address in the US (hard when you haven't decided on one), phone numbers and addresses of close family, and a few non-family persons who can back up everything you have written. In addition you must list your last jobs, the countries you have visited the last 10 years (including the actual years you visited them), any "special skills", and any organisation you have been a member of or have contributed to. This information is *really* hard to remmeber/get - yet alone to find two non-family members who can verify it.
* Obtain a photograph with exact measures 5cm times 5 cm, on a white background, facing the camera, with certain limits on the ratio of head/background in the picture frame.
* Pay ~$150 to get an appointment at the US embassy.
* Pay a sevis fee ($100).
* Attend an interview at the embassy (took less than 5 minutes). Cost me ~$200 in travelling, and took an entire day, beginning at 4 in the morning to get their before it closed for interviews (10 a.m.).
* Bring your own $10 stamped SAE.
* Bring bank statements, debt documentation, working contracts, and other financial documents.

This is just of the top of my head, as I try to remember the detail. In addition to that, Denmark is even part of the visa-waver agreement.

What seems totally absurd to me, is that you can enter the US as a tourist with no fuzz at all, but once you actually need to do something there you need to go through quite a security clearance. I mean, why should the odds be higher that you are a terrorist if you are not a tourist?
I don't know if it's the same deal with foreigners coming to Europe, but as I haven't heard any of those I talk with complain, I guess not.

A doctor here at work had to go through the same things as you mentioned Trancaholic. He's originally from Denamrk but have been working in Swedish univeristies for some years now. He got involved in a big study run by a univeristy near Boston and he got to be the project manager. Needless to say he had to be there for 3-6 months oversee the project.

He was complaining a lot regarding the process for acquiring visa and basically mentioned all the things in the post above. The part in which he had to state which countries he'd been to the last 10 years got problematic because he had to dicslose where his wife and kids had been as well, even though they would not go the US with him. They travelled a lot and couldn't really remember when they where in which country. Same thing with the organisations he had been part of. The wife and kids were included in that too.

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Last edited by Johan (DJ Irish) on Feb-01-2005 at 10:08

we had the same over here in germany about 60 years ago...

once you have a police state its really hard to get rid of it.

last time about 20 million people died..

please keep up your eyes, don´t let it be "the united states of fear". if america is going into that direction the rest of the world sees as the present and the future for your beautiful country, we can start calling it the 4th reich... nobody needs that

keep your eyes open. www.infowars.com (this also links to a good network of related sites, worth checking)

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quote:

Originally posted by Spacey Orange Sorry to steal your thunder m8 but this was already posted in the music discussion forum. but what the heck, i'll post here what i posted there. Garnier cancles US tour

what would you say if you wanted to travel to the UK and we treated you like a criminal, took away basic human rights and invaded your privacy ? Some things should just be allowed to be kept private and IMO garnier is gutsy to stand up against it. Innocent until proven guilty guys, seems to be forgotten with the way a lot of people from outside the USA are treated now

the rrest of the world sees america as a growing threat to their liberties... we cant go there without giving up our privacy, if we say that going to war for oil is wrong, it just does not matter...
if we say that what the us admins are doin, we are told we were afraid and we would be frightened even if a sweet pet looks evil at us.

thats no good way somehow. but the american media is so strong in "making opinions" that the normal citizen, who has no political knowledge of the things goin on outside the US just believes in rumsy , bush and cheney...

the only way to get to talk about that is the internet, because the official newspapers and channels are so stuffed wif propaganda..

hope u do not be angry if i compare this whole thing to adolf hitlers 3rd reich. first the liberties, then the expansive war strategy to gain new control over more wealth and lands, then the war. and after all the killings a big "ooooooh soooooorry we did not knoooooow"



hope it wont be like that ...

but nobody seems to be interested in this shit! only few europs who complain all the time, isnt that boring?

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