quote:

Originally posted by dj_kane I've read about 10 threads on bass and all are saying the same thing and don't really mention how to make a bass warm. anyone know how to create a bass like martin roth's mix of thrillseekers? it carries the track so well and is really present. thanks!

Sample?

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One always has to remember these days where the garbage pail is, because it's so easy to make sounds, and to put sounds together into something that appears to be music, but it's just as hard as it always was to make good music.
- Robert Moog

Real analogue.

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https://soundcloud.com/ghostea stuff

If you are talking about that track with Gina Dootson, I know what you mean.

The bass sound is very rich and carries the sound nicely.

If you listen and think about it you will notice that it's a very bass orientated track and from what I remember it doesn't get into melody too much as the vocal is what carries the track.

One of the main reasons as I understand it is that the choice of sound is one of the key points here. Martin Roth has picked a superb bass sound to work with.

Secondly, as the track is so bass driven it opens up a few more opportunities in terms of what to cut and what not to cut in terms of EQ, basically the headroom doesn't have to be balanced or sacrificed as much for other sounds. Gina Dootson's voice also occupies a much higher frequency range so you can cut the low end out of her voice quite aggressively and still get away with it.

Of course I could be talking crap, but it's how I understand it.

Cheers
Nem

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yea nemesis agree with you on that point. the vocal really carries the track. its vocal and bass for at least 2 minutes but it works. guess its down to picking a good patch in the end.

cheers

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To me, bass-warmth means having alot of bottom-end.

Lots of trance now-a-days can have alot of digital bass that doesn't occupy all the bass frequencies (ironic, yes, but it actually works from time to time). They sound more like NES chip patches with some of delay, and EQ. Plastic bass can really give modern trance an edge, but often lacks warmth that is filled with the kick/low-pads/some leads (if done correctly).

Real analogue is where bass shnines, because the waveforms are no longer being "pixelized" (I could be wrong). This, however, is becomming a myth, as digital technology is at such a damn high resolution that VA tech is where it's really at (it just hasn't been refined to the Nth degree).

If you really want warm bass, you should experiment with VA or analogue technology, and the EQ range described. A bass-heavy track looks alot different in under a spectrum analyzer plugin's eye.

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quote:

Originally posted by Four_On_Four-er Real analogue is where bass shnines, because the waveforms are no longer being "pixelized" (I could be wrong). This, however, is becomming a myth, as digital technology is at such a damn high resolution that VA tech is where it's really at (it just hasn't been refined to the Nth degree).

Math shows that this is just wishful thinking. Try to picture a waveform. Then take the waveform's y position at regular intervals. As you make the intervals larger, what disappears first? High frequencies. Digital music has a nearly insignificant effect on bass.

Also, heavy bass is very, very easy to achieve digitally with the right processing. It's simply a matter of cutting and augmenting in the right places, then compressing.

It should be noted that a bass note is defined by it's fundamental, the lowest frequency in a note. All of the basic waveforms have this frequency, and it is the loudest in each one. In other words, if a saw is lacking in bass, it's not a saw. It sounds like a saw through a high pass filter. If you looked at the waveform of an HP'd sawtooth, it would not be recognizeable. Since most synths fairly faithfully reproduce the basic waveforms, it's safe to assume that they represent the bass fairly well.

Therefore if you are sorely lacking in bass frequencies below, say 100 Hz, then don't blame your synth. Instead, just write your notes so that they play below G#1.

Furthermore, warmth does not just mean low frequencies. Play your favorite professional bass sound. Then play a sine wave at 60 Hz. Which is more warm? It should be the former, because warmth is defined by an abundance of composite frequencies, and the pro sound looks at the range he wants the bass to occupy and crams that with as many composite frequencies as possible without making the note indistingushable. The most ready example is the supersaw. The terms often used for that sound are bright, warm, and full. This still applies to bass as well. Therefore, your goal should be to fill your bass up with frequencies within the range you want to have it. This can be achieved through chorus effects, detuning, and selecting complex waveforms (square, saw, etc.).

This last point is related to why analogue synths make such nice basses. It's because they aren't perfect. Analogue synths don't faithfully reproduce the sounds you ask them to. There will always be variations in an analogue sound. This gives the analogue synth a naturally warm sound.

Hope you found this helpful.

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quote:

Originally posted by thoughtlessjex Math shows that this is just wishful thinking. Try to picture a waveform. Then take the waveform's y position at regular intervals. As you make the intervals larger, what disappears first? High frequencies. Digital music has a nearly insignificant effect on bass. Also, heavy bass is very, very easy to achieve digitally with the right processing. It's simply a matter of cutting and augmenting in the right places, then compressing. It should be noted that a bass note is defined by it's fundamental, the lowest frequency in a note. All of the basic waveforms have this frequency, and it is the loudest in each one. In other words, if a saw is lacking in bass, it's not a saw. It sounds like a saw through a high pass filter. If you looked at the waveform of an HP'd sawtooth, it would not be recognizeable. Since most synths fairly faithfully reproduce the basic waveforms, it's safe to assume that they represent the bass fairly well. Therefore if you are sorely lacking in bass frequencies below, say 100 Hz, then don't blame your synth. Instead, just write your notes so that they play below G#1. Furthermore, warmth does not just mean low frequencies. Play your favorite professional bass sound. Then play a sine wave at 60 Hz. Which is more warm? It should be the former, because warmth is defined by an abundance of composite frequencies, and the pro sound looks at the range he wants the bass to occupy and crams that with as many composite frequencies as possible without making the note indistingushable. The most ready example is the supersaw. The terms often used for that sound are bright, warm, and full. This still applies to bass as well. Therefore, your goal should be to fill your bass up with frequencies within the range you want to have it. This can be achieved through chorus effects, detuning, and selecting complex waveforms (square, saw, etc.). This last point is related to why analogue synths make such nice basses. It's because they aren't perfect. Analogue synths don't faithfully reproduce the sounds you ask them to. There will always be variations in an analogue sound. This gives the analogue synth a naturally warm sound. Hope you found this helpful.

I always had the sneaking suspicion that analog-nazis were full of it. Very informative.

___________________

One always has to remember these days where the garbage pail is, because it's so easy to make sounds, and to put sounds together into something that appears to be music, but it's just as hard as it always was to make good music.
- Robert Moog

Play with the length of your bassnotes and their relation to the melody or groove... longer bassnotes sometimes are great for carrying along parts of a track.

You need at least VA for the kind of bass you want. Software just wont cut it.

For the kind of bass that satifies me, real analogue is required, period.

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https://soundcloud.com/ghostea stuff

Anyone heard 'Bill Makris - In My Mind'? Now, that's a really warm bass.

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quote:

Originally posted by mysticalninja You need at least VA for the kind of bass you want. Software just wont cut it. For the kind of bass that satifies me, real analogue is required, period.

And VA synths are different from software synths? They're basically just software that are running on hardware chips.