I have read this thread and have to admit that I am not impressed by it.
Sure Sasha's Ableton will be cool but everyone seems to be hyping it up to do all these amazing things but truth be told not many people actually know what it does.

You don't have to play mp3s or have ableton to be able to do all the cool stuff. Just be a bit creative with your own decks and make some of your own versions of stuff using software and then mix over the top of that. You would be suprised.

To a degree I find that lap tops are a threat to some people creativity especially if they haven't mastered the art of DJing as it is today.
Sure, laptops make sense.

What people seem to forget, perhaps some of us actually like DJing with vinyl or CDs.

If the time comes that I need to upgrade then so be it.

Cheers
Nem

EDIT - Considering a lot of DJs still don't harmonically mix, this toy is not for everyone. You have to understand music very well to be able to handle that much going on at once.

___________________
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Last edited by Nemesis44 on Apr-06-2005 at 15:55

Give it a few months to cool off, Ableton is a big thing right now especially with Sasha and his magic mixer.
Im not very impressed with this, if i wanted to see a guy stand on a stage with a laptop and put samples together then i would pay my
next door neighbours kid 10$ to play around with traktor.

As Nemesis said, you can do very much on your own decks without Ableton. Ofcourse Ableton makes it possible to do certain things that
you would have a hard time doing with decks, but, so what?
I guess im just not into the hype, i dont care if Sasha is playing 3, 4, 5 or 500 songs at once, i want to hear him mix.
I want to see his technical skills, i dont want to see the grin of his face when he doubleclicks another sample.

___________________
- webbie

quote:

To a degree I find that lap tops are a threat to some people creativity especially if they haven't mastered the art of DJing as it is today. Sure, laptops make sense. What people seem to forget, perhaps some of us actually like DJing with vinyl or CDs.

i disagree. i think stuff like ableton throws open so many extra creative doors - we are now getting into the realm of live remixing. the possibilities are endless if your DJ gear is synced to the rest of your midi rig. i can play live synthesizer parts over sets. i can introduced pre programmed loops. manipulate synth lines live. effect all of it with effects you will never find in any peice of DJ gear. the sound warping and creative possibilities are literally endless. im personally not interested in turntablism. if i were ever going to DJ i would bring half my studio gear with me and play virus leads/pads etc over existing sets. id produce extra highhat loops/breakbeat loops weeks in advance and swing them into songs cuz its all midi synced. and it would be a kind of corollary for performing your own works live. im much more interested in how the DJ can incorporate live production into songs. i think if done well it can be amazing. lab4 do alot of this live/semi live and their shows are truly brilliant.

I might just be old fashioned but when i go to see a DJ play i go to see him take records and play them, toying around with an effects unit
is just fun. One reason is because i actually want to be able to recognize songs and be able to buy them later.

I guess im just not much for all of this mixing done in a program.
Its just too much Pro Tools for me, everything blending into each other perfectly.

___________________
- webbie

The Maven was not designed to help sasha use abelton. It was designed to make Sasha using abelton look cool to punters. Rather than boring.

quote:

Originally posted by webbie I want to see his technical skills, i dont want to see the grin of his face when he doubleclicks another sample.

+1

personally i think its fine if a dj uses a laptop, but only if its accompanying a set of decks... from the dancefloor or next to the booth, you see a dj thumbing thru his box for the next track it builds up some excitement and anticipation cus all the while, youre having a good time and you notice "hey he/she is about to drop in another track, lets see how it works out" cus either the mix comes out good or the dj fuks it up... traditional djing *looks* pretty involved, which it is, and that adds to the atmosphere... especially in clubs where the booth is easily seen by all, ppl see the dj workin like a madman and then go nuts along with the floor when the mix goes good its just makes you feel great - like a crowd induced high

sure not everyones there to watch the dj all night, but ppl definately notice when the dj owns...and if youve got the right crowd they'll acknowledge the effort put in the set...if you know how to work a laptop and make it look good then kudos to you... but clicking around doesnt look too impressive unless you have some mad creativity

im oldschool, seeing a dj spin *disks* is what really does it for me...unless the pull something like Future Prophecies and whip out decks, laptop, sax, flute, etc and the dj scratches up a mad set while his buddy is jammin away on some wind instrument with added effx

___________________
*Fav tune at the moment*
Vector Burn - Paradise Lost
"This is the life we chose, the life we lead. There is only one guarantee - None of us will see heaven"

quote:

Originally posted by RickyM Next thread - trance for listening to when you are halfway down the stairs in your house...

quote:

Originally posted by Derivative i disagree. i think stuff like ableton throws open so many extra creative doors - we are now getting into the realm of live remixing. the possibilities are endless if your DJ gear is synced to the rest of your midi rig. i can play live synthesizer parts over sets. i can introduced pre programmed loops. manipulate synth lines live. effect all of it with effects you will never find in any peice of DJ gear. the sound warping and creative possibilities are literally endless. im personally not interested in turntablism. if i were ever going to DJ i would bring half my studio gear with me and play virus leads/pads etc over existing sets. id produce extra highhat loops/breakbeat loops weeks in advance and swing them into songs cuz its all midi synced. and it would be a kind of corollary for performing your own works live. im much more interested in how the DJ can incorporate live production into songs. i think if done well it can be amazing. lab4 do alot of this live/semi live and their shows are truly brilliant.

I hear what you are saying, but I don't think that Ableton (fine application though it may be) is the final word on that sort of thing.
I too like the thought of doing the things that you mentioned but the point is that I already do from time to time without the help of Ableton. Ofcourse if it helps to produce creativity then I guess I have to say that I'm all for it. I'm probably more against hype than anything else.

Only thing is... I would hate to see anything that made Digweed seem any more... shall we say not so active than he already is like pure valium to me.

Cheers
Nem

___________________
https://www.mixcloud.com/Calvin_Karass/

Last edited by Nemesis44 on Apr-06-2005 at 18:37

For me I think it's all about a balance...

I would hate to go pay money to see a DJ sit behind a Laptop all night and "Double Click" his way through all his mixes, it just doesn't make me feel like I'm watching any kind of real performance...

BUT!

I do think guys like Sasha and Diggers using Ableton is a completely different situation. Seeing those guys have like two Tech 12's, a CDJ, and Ableton all running out to the crowd at once is an AMAZING sight to see and IMO is a real springboard for creativity...

Just my two cents, and I hope it never ever gets to the point where the no decks setup is acceptable. It's like that song they used to make kids sing in grammar school:

"Make new friends, but keep the old, one is silver and the other gold."

Peace, Cheers,

RJT

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last minute disco dot net

quote:

Originally posted by Derivative the sound warping and creative possibilities are literally endless.

true, but unless you know what you are doing it can easily go sour on you

ill admit that i feel threatened by all the new technology but as long as it doesnt *replace* the traditional means (which i dont see happening anytime soon) everythings fine...personally, as a dj i see more value in owning that one tune that is guaranteed to make the floor go nuts on vinyl than as a file... cds are always an exception if its a legit tune...

as long as nothing is overthrown im a happy camper, cus in the end its all about the music and not what its played from as far as the crowds concerned... but when it comes to me and the way i feel about it i can be a nudge

___________________
*Fav tune at the moment*
Vector Burn - Paradise Lost
"This is the life we chose, the life we lead. There is only one guarantee - None of us will see heaven"

quote:

Originally posted by RickyM Next thread - trance for listening to when you are halfway down the stairs in your house...

quote:

Originally posted by Derivative i disagree. i think stuff like ableton throws open so many extra creative doors - we are now getting into the realm of live remixing. the possibilities are endless if your DJ gear is synced to the rest of your midi rig. i can play live synthesizer parts over sets. i can introduced pre programmed loops. manipulate synth lines live. effect all of it with effects you will never find in any peice of DJ gear. the sound warping and creative possibilities are literally endless. im personally not interested in turntablism. if i were ever going to DJ i would bring half my studio gear with me and play virus leads/pads etc over existing sets. id produce extra highhat loops/breakbeat loops weeks in advance and swing them into songs cuz its all midi synced. and it would be a kind of corollary for performing your own works live. im much more interested in how the DJ can incorporate live production into songs. i think if done well it can be amazing. lab4 do alot of this live/semi live and their shows are truly brilliant.

that's not really djing anymore though, now is it? that's more like live performace and i think sasha is going more that way even though he's not playing his own tunes. what sasha is doing isn't really anything new. sasha just has so much influence that he can do this with other people's tunes, because people will be gladly sending him anything he wants, like the parts of the tunes, so he can use them with ableton live. it's pretty much all been done before by live acts, but with their own tunes.
and no i don't see this as the future of djing.

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I recently went to Crobar here in NYC to see what Sasha was up to with Ableton, and I have to say, i was impressed. But he wasn't DJing. It was a live act, sort of. Guys like Infusion, Grayarea, Nu NRG, Hybrid, etc are doing much more unique things than Sasha is right now. They're reacreating all their songs live on the fly using keyboards and real instruments in some cases.

Plus people have to realize that Sasha using Ableton is not a one man show. I highly doubt he is sitting there cutting up and relayering all these songs. I'm sure he has people who do that for him. And not everyone is going to be able to use a custom made Ableton controller and get taught how to use the program by actual Ableton engineers like I'm sure was the case for him. I definitely respect what he is doing and think it is cool, but by no means do I think Ableton is goign to replace conventional Djing.