quote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4670379.stm Tens of thousands of people have attended ceremonies marking the 10th anniversary of the massacre of Bosnian Muslims in Srebrenica. Grieving relatives buried more than 600 newly identified dead, after prayers and words of support from international and local officials. About 8,000 men and boys were killed by Bosnian Serb forces in 1995 in Europe's worst atrocity since World War II. Serbian officials led by President Tadic paid respects for the first time. They killed my entire life and the only thing I want now is to see the guilty ones pay for it Fatima Budic Mother and wife of victims Muslim prayers echoed through the valley of the memorial site at Potocari, the site of the slaughter, as women in white headscarves wept beside the remains of their loved ones. The green coffins were then passed from hand to hand through the crowd to the freshly dug grave sites, as announcers called out one by one the names of the 610 dead. Each family buried its own dead, by hand or using shovels and buckets. 'Deeply sorry' Serbia's parliament observed a minute silence for all victims of atrocities in and around Srebrenica, and also of last week's London bomb attacks. SREBRENICA MASSACRE 1: Bosnian Serb forces advance on Srebrenica. Thousands of Bosnian Muslims flee 2: More than 20,000 people flee to Potocari, seeking help from Dutch peacekeepers. But Serb forces enter the camp, killing the men and boys 3: Killing sites include a football field in Nova Kasaba 4: Thousands of males are killed trying to reach the Muslim-controlled city of Tuzla But it failed to make specific reference to the Srebrenica massacre, and was boycotted by the ultra-nationalist Serbian Radical Party. Earlier, UK Foreign Secretary Jack Straw apologised on behalf of the international community for failing to stop the atrocity. "For it is to the shame of the international community that this evil took place under our noses and we did nothing like enough. I bitterly regret this and I am deeply sorry for it," he said. He said that it was "sickening" that former Bosnian Serb leader Radovan Karadzic and his army commander Gen Ratko Mladic, who are accused of the slaughter, had not yet been brought to justice. UN Secretary General Kofi Annan said Srebrenica would haunt the organisation forever in a statement read out at the ceremony. The attack on Srebrenica was an assault on fundamental human rights Auron Mejzini, Pristina, Kosovo Have Your Say EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana and former US Balkans envoy Richard Holbrooke also described it as a collective failure. Meanwhile the Hague tribunal's chief prosecutor, Carla del Ponte, boycotted the occasion to protest against the failure to arrest Mr Karadzic and Mr Mladic. Arrests 'imminent' In Serbia, many still believe the mass killings never took place. But a new video showing the execution of Muslim civilians sparked national soul-searching among Serbs last month. SREBRENICA INDICTMENTS Convicted, cases completed - 3 including former Bosnian Serb Army chief of staff Gen Radoslav Krstic Appeals against convictions - 3 On trial - former Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic Cases at pre-trial stage - 9 Still at large - 3 including Radovan Karadzic and Gen Ratko Mladic Source: International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia Dutch peacekeepers who were guarding the Srebrenica enclave at the time of the massacre have accepted partial responsibility for what happened. Mr Karadzic and Gen Mladic have been indicted for genocide but are still at large. Serbian President Boris Tadic told the Bosnian Serb newspaper Nezavisne Novine that he hoped Gen Mladic would be arrested in the next few days. Many of the widows attending the ceremony are still waiting to see justice done, says the BBC's Nick Hawton in Srebrenica. "They killed my entire life and the only thing I want now is to see the guilty ones pay for it," Fatima Budic, whose 14-year-old son Velija was one of the victims, told AP news agency. Her husband and another son are among the missing

It makes me feel ashamed to call myself a Serb... and after seeing those videos, even more so

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A witty saying proves nothing.
-Voltaire

That's very sad indeed.

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"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

very unfortunate and very forgotten.. just like the Rwandan massacre. I hope people can take action when evil like this lurks in the corners.

My sisters boyfriends is serb.. he still needs "proof" that this happened.

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"This place isn't big enough for me to blow it up."
-MARCO V

Right. Not to forget this happened in a UN Camp.
Bosnian Serbs come to the gate and ask the UN if they can go in for some fun and the UN runs with its tail behind its legs basically rolling out the red carpet and welcoming them in.

At least in Rwanda they would stand their ground in their own freakin camps. Saying if you want to kill 1000 Tutsis, you have to kill 100 UN peacekeepers. Guess what? 1000 Tutsis were saved.

The stupidity to abide by political orders from above and not be able to stand your grand and defend it with your life to the death is jus idiotic.

how can comandres on the ground be so stupid?

Is it not worth it to be court-marshalled knowing you saved thousands for disobeying a dumb order?!



bah enough rant.
...
Another reason why I'm not a big fan of the UN.

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its a shame that the international community dont see the pursuit of these mass murderers as a priority.

quote:

Originally posted by tamk its a shame that the international community dont see the pursuit of these mass murderers as a priority.

Speaking of which, anyone know how Mr. Slovo is doing up in the Hague? Have they finally tried him... when the hell is that trial going to end?

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quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus Another reason why I'm not a big fan of the UN.

The thing that pisses me off about people dissing the UN is they seem completely oblivious to what the UN actually is. Do you hate UNICEF? The World Health Organisation? People look at the UN and think its some kind of international army but its not. Peacekeeping is a very small part of what the UN does.

THE UN DOES NOT HAVE A ARMY

As for Sebrenica...you see in the article the UK, the US and the EU saying sorry for failing to prevent the massacre. THEY ARE THE UN. The UN is its members. When you say the "UN did nothing in Rwanda" you mean the UK did nothing, or the French did nothing, or the Americans did nothing. Nobody likes to do peacekeeping missions cos they dont fit in with national interests very well. America was loath to become involved in UN peacekeeping missions since Somalia. They entered the Balkans cos the EU didn't know its arse from its elbow and no matter how much the US doesnt get on with the EU, Europe's security is important to America, so it gets involved. They were the UN in that conflict and they were the ones that let this happen - thats what they are saying now.

Today, the UN is merely a scape goat for everyone fucking else to blame for "not doing anything" when the UN = the world

When nobody lifts a finger to help people around the world dont look to the UN to blame look at your own government and ask what the fuck are they doing? Did they offer troops to the UN?

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley The thing that pisses me off about people dissing the UN is they seem completely oblivious to what the UN actually is. Do you hate UNICEF? The World Health Organisation? People look at the UN and think its some kind of international army but its not. Peacekeeping is a very small part of what the UN does. THE UN DOES NOT HAVE A ARMY As for Sebrenica...you see in the article the UK, the US and the EU saying sorry for failing to prevent the massacre. THEY ARE THE UN. The UN is its members. When you say the "UN did nothing in Rwanda" you mean the UK did nothing, or the French did nothing, or the Americans did nothing. Nobody likes to do peacekeeping missions cos they dont fit in with national interests very well. America was loath to become involved in UN peacekeeping missions since Somalia. They entered the Balkans cos the EU didn't know its arse from its elbow and no matter how much the US doesnt get on with the EU, Europe's security is important to America, so it gets involved. They were the UN in that conflict and they were the ones that let this happen - thats what they are saying now. Today, the UN is merely a scape goat for everyone fucking else to blame for "not doing anything" when the UN = the world When nobody lifts a finger to help people around the world dont look to the UN to blame look at your own government and ask what the fuck are they doing? Did they offer troops to the UN?

Nice rant.

Apparently you are unfimiliar with the story of Srebrenica:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srebrenica_massacre

Basic plot: UN creates safe zone.
UN takes away power from the military leaders on the ground (no airstrikes, going out of safe haven, etc).
UN makes promises it can not keep (gaurding a town of thousands with 650 men surronded by thousands of soldiers yet garunteeing protection).
Bosnians attack Serbs out of safe zone. Serbs come into safe zone, UN doesn't put up a fight but surrenders and lets 1000s of Bosnians be slaughtered instead.


Also note the USA was not involved in the Baltics at this time. It did not commit forces to fight for the UN.

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quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus Nice rant. Apparently you are unfimiliar with the story of Srebrenica: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srebrenica_massacre Basic plot: UN creates safe zone. UN takes away power from the military leaders on the ground (no airstrikes, going out of safe haven, etc). UN makes promises it can not keep (gaurding a town of thousands with 650 men surronded by thousands of soldiers yet garunteeing protection). Bosnians attack Serbs out of safe zone. Serbs come into safe zone, UN doesn't put up a fight but surrenders and lets 1000s of Bosnians be slaughtered instead. Also note the USA was not involved in the Baltics at this time. It did not commit forces to fight for the UN.

So why blame the UN? Why not blame the US for not doing enuf? Why not blame the EU? They were Dutch soldiers so why not blame Holland?

I dunno, maybe you dont like the UN cos you're from Israel? But it just pisses me off when people use the UN as a scape goat cos nobody did anything. The EU and US have both proved they do not need UN resolutions to engage in conflicts, yet when the genocide in Rwanda occured who got the blame? The UN did. And whats more, the people fingering the blame are Americans or Europeans!

Sometimes I just think we created the UN to clear our conscience for not lifting a finger to help people that need it. Nobody gave a shit when the Jews were being killed and nobody gives a shit today when similar things happen. The only difference is now we have the UN to blame for not doing anything or enuf...

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley So why blame the UN? Why not blame the US for not doing enuf? Why not blame the EU? They were Dutch soldiers so why not blame Holland?

I never blame the nations that don't do nothing. When you enter into world politics you can't do anything half-assed. You either do it, or don't do it. The dangers of doing ti half-assed are much greater than not doing anything. Thats why I blame the UN in this case and in Rwanda.

You either offer protection and provide the forces and ability for commanders on the ground to offer protection or you don't, there is no middle (as both cases have clearly demonstrated).

quote:

I dunno, maybe you dont like the UN cos you're from Israel?

Thats not the reason, but defintely studying Israel's and the UN fucked up history together one can easily conclude the UN is fucked up.

quote:

But it just pisses me off when people use the UN as a scape goat cos nobody did anything. The EU and US have both proved they do not need UN resolutions to engage in conflicts, yet when the genocide in Rwanda occured who got the blame? The UN did. And whats more, the people fingering the blame are Americans or Europeans!

Rwanda was the mess of the Belgiums, I blame them first, the UN second. The USA was right not to enter that colonial outbreak.
If the Belgiums, perhaps the nation with the greatest interest of all western nations left after 4-8 of their soldiers were killed what were other nations to do? After setting such a precedent (kill 8 soldiers we leave) the UN mission was doomed to failure.

quote:

Sometimes I just think we created the UN to clear our conscience for not lifting a finger to help people that need it. Nobody gave a shit when the Jews were being killed and nobody gives a shit today when similar things happen. The only difference is now we have the UN to blame for not doing anything or enuf...

All I am saying the UN should be what it is and no more. Don't pretend to be a peacekeeping organization. Don't pretend to be neutral. Don't pretend to be serving justice and the betterment of humanity. A UN has its palce, but it has over stepped its bounds and thousands have died as a consequence.

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quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus I never blame the nations that don't do nothing. When you enter into world politics you can't do anything half-assed. You either do it, or don't do it. The dangers of doing ti half-assed are much greater than not doing anything. Thats why I blame the UN in this case and in Rwanda. You either offer protection and provide the forces and ability for commanders on the ground to offer protection or you don't, there is no middle (as both cases have clearly demonstrated).

FFS Yoepus, the UN doesn't have ANY forces. What part of that do you not understand???

quote:

Rwanda was the mess of the Belgiums, I blame them first, the UN second. The USA was right not to enter that colonial outbreak. If the Belgiums, perhaps the nation with the greatest interest of all western nations left after 4-8 of their soldiers were killed what were other nations to do? After setting such a precedent (kill 8 soldiers we leave) the UN mission was doomed to failure.

Oh the mighty Belgium! Fuck me if even Belgium cannot sucessfully complete a peacekeeping operation what chance do the loley Americans or British or dare I say the Israelis have of succeding?

quote:

All I am saying the UN should be what it is and no more. Don't pretend to be a peacekeeping organization. Don't pretend to be neutral. Don't pretend to be serving justice and the betterment of humanity. A UN has its palce, but it has over stepped its bounds and thousands have died as a consequence.

You think these people dies BECAUSE the UN got involved?!

Its a sorry state of affairs when people around the world are being slaughtered and altho people realise this is a bad thing, all they are concerned about is having someone else to blame. The UK has the power to make a difference, so does America, so does Israel or France, but none of them want to (ok so they do on occasions when it suits them but..) What can the UN do when the major military powers do not want to become involved? Get blamed by the powers that refuse to become involved, thats what they do