Disclaimer: if your attention span is too short or you're in a hurry, skip the following paragraphs and feel free to give your opinions As for those who will carry on reading, where it says "marriage" you might want to change to any other relationship as well.
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Security guard: Lira, you're a very disciplined fellow. You should marry your girlfriend, you'd make her very happy.
Me: Hehe, cheers, mate. Yeah, it would be nice if it works out that way.
SG: There's an important thing though. Other than having a girlfriend, it's important to have another girlfriend.
Me: Hehe, and why would that be, exactly?
SG: You see, when my wife doesn't understand me, the other one probably will. The problem is that it becomes a bit of a snowball then: once you start, you can't stop. I've got several lovers now, which often brings me problems though, as it's quite difficult to hide them all. Women are needy, you know, and it's hard to give attention to all of them. Specially if the one getting less attention is your wife - in this case, she'll be rather pissed.

From now on, I'm looking forward to posting less often because of some problems in real life (not connect to the subject of this thread, by the way, I'm just really short of time and will take a 3 month break starting tomorrow ) but, in spite of that, I'd like to post something that could be interesting and entertaining every now and then, giving some food for thought. Occasionally, I'd like to bring some polemic topics so we could discuss on things that could actually be fruitful on our real lives. In this first thread, I decided to talk about adultery because, well, it begins with "a"
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I had that chat with the security guard back in the time I worked at university. We're about the same age (he being a few months younger) and he got married when he was 17, as I recall it. I must say that my surprise was not due to the way he could openly talk about it - after all, if it weren't for this behaviour, many books, films and even emo music wouldn't exist (not that the latter would be a bad thing ). But I was rather intrigued: why does this happen?

Despite of the natural tendency in our culture to find someone (or something) to blame, that approach wouldn't be helpful - everything happens out of circunstances, without having someone to specifically bear the guilt. The first person to start wondering more scientifically about this matter was probably Sigmund Freud (some sort of buttsecks-meister, as he was the first one to look inside the brain and end up finding the genitals) if you accept the Oedipus complex as a way of recognising the existence of couples, which eventually ends up being fundamental in our way of dealing with future desires and morals. Since then people have argued, fought, quarreled and kept cheating. One might even wonder whether this is natural or imposed by society and/or religion.

"Most marriage counselors agree there is usually more than one reason for infidelity, ranging from a search for passion and companionship to a need for revenge or even a sexual thrill. Cheating affects men and women differently. While men are usually more interested in the physical aspect of an affair, women tend to become more involved emotionally as a way to prove their attractiveness or worth.

Marriage therapist Emily Brown, who is director of Key Bridge Therapy & Mediation Center in Arlington, Va., counsels couples after adultery occurs. According to Knight Ridder, she has identified five types of illicit affairs and the people who have them:

1. Exit affair: One spouse has already decided to leave the marriage, and the affair provides the justification. Both men and women can have exit affairs.
   
2. Split-self affair: When spouses sacrifice their own feelings and needs to care for others, the deprivation can catch up with them. This type of affair, which is serious, long-term, and passionate, affects mostly men.
   
3. Sexual addiction affair: Men more typically indulge in this type of affair in which sex is an addiction that is used over and over again to numb inner pain and emptiness.
   
4. Conflict avoidance affair: When a husband and wife don't face each other when there is a problem, their differences cannot be resolved and the marriage erodes. This kind of affair affects both men and women.
   
5. Intimacy avoidance affair: People who avoid intimacy are scared to get too close to someone else, so they erect barriers. While conflict is a common type of barrier, an affair is another. This affects both men and women." (source)

Given the proper circunstances (both psychological and physical), it could happen, being the natural results of what was happening previously. Naturally the most necessary aspect so that adultery can exist is the existence of monogamy. Some people might debate on whether it's valid or not but the debates are usually full of fallacies, prejudices from both supporters and naysayers. Personally, the reason why I support monogamy could be simply found in the Koran:

"And if you fear you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphan girls, then marry (other) women of your choice; 2, 3 or 4, but if you fear you may not be able to deal justly (with them) then only one." (source).

The more people you commit to, the more you end up sharing your time and attention so you might be unfair to one of them, as the security guard pointed out. This could probably be an evolutive social mechanism that turned monogamy into a dominant practice in our society (although not every society behaves equally), because the lesser spouses and children you have, the easier it is to take care of them (besides, you might defend more fiercily a child of your own than someone else's child). I tend to look down at the counter-example of polygamy being a better solution because you could have a more genetically diverse population because we're not much different genetically, and such behaviour wouldn't change the frequency of alleles in a population, so it would end up being all the same.

In fact, polygamy could lead to many problems, as the Brits probably remember David Blunkett and the Taiwanese might recall what happened to Chu Mei-Feng and Ho Ru-yun and why they're mentioned here.
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I don't want this post to be too long so I'm stopping here. So, what do you guys think of the subject - anything you might want to add and/or disagree with?

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nice read there Lira. can't really add much to that except i'm really afraid of being cheated on in relationships. i dunno if that stems from a self insecurity or just its prevelance in society, but i have a lot of trust issues because of this and that sucks because perhaps someone i might date might not deserve that...

Lira, instructive as always.

I don't think I would EVER have it in me to cheat on someone I loved... Reason being is that if someone I loved cheated on me, I couldn't even imagine the pain (thank God it's never happened to me before)... I think I'd just crawl in a corner and die. I've always been a very empathetic person and I also can't imagine making someone so unhappy. It's much better to break up if you're unsatisfied and you can't work things out than to cheat. I don't look down on people who have cheated because it's their problem and I don't really care what the rest of the world does anyway.

someone explain why "adultery" or "cheating" (or another bad sounding word western civilization has attatched to having sex with more than one person at a time) is inherently wrong.

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quote:

Addy fo SHADDY ! hiccup, KA pladdy.

quote:

Originally posted by Aiwendil someone explain why "adultery" or "cheating" (or another bad sounding word western civilization has attatched to having sex with more than one person at a time) is inherently wrong.

Short answer: Because of tradition

Long Answer: Because of traditional social organisation and human insecurity, such situations might be not well seen by one (or more) individual(s) involved in such event. Then, as a form of protecting the status quo, society tends to be harsher on the person who is considered guilty, as "guilt" is a good way of refraining someone from doing something and/or not doing that again. That's why these actions are seen as wrong. Like I said before, the reason to keep this status quo is quite obvious: children born out of wedlock when one of the parents are already married to someone else might become a social problem, as can be seen in David Blunkett's case.

Cheating, specifically, means you're breaking a "rule", which might not necessarily be written but implicitly understood when you enter a relationship. However, if the "cheater", the "co-cheater" and the "cheated" happen to be against society's standards, it wouldn't be cheating anymore.

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choose the right woman first time, and you wont need another who understands you.

imo, you should base a lifetime partner on how you get on with them rather than sexual attraction.

the question i'd ask myself is.. if there was no sex at all (you could even go as far to say if she was a he) would we make good friends... if the answer is truly yes, then that's a good sign.

obviously i woulnt marry the ugliest mofo on the planet, because everyone want to be sexually attracted to their partner, but for long term commitment you have to relate well to the other person.

just my view.

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could someone make a long story short? my ADD doesn't allow me to read long paragraphs

This is what I gathered: Lira, faithful to only one woman, has decided to get married and will be in a three month honeymoon.

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quote:

Originally posted by Nell choose the right woman first time, and you wont need another who understands you.

I agree to this point. I am scared to commit, and always think there must be something better out there, maybe i am wrong to think that and should settle for second best, i just dont want to have that attitude all my life.
Some people may commit, i.e get married fore security, and so there not alone etc which leads settling for second best, and then when other opertunites which arise may seem better that what the person is currently involved with, therfor making them "cheat."
Probably the whole "the grass is greener on the otherside" thing.

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Sigless

I remember when I was younger...


I had a beautiful girlfriend that I thought i loved....rather, it was just my own little perception of what "love" was and how some one is supposed to act when "in love".. anywayz- she cheated on me. Right away in the relationship and I automatically attributed this cheating she had done to be something wrong with ME.

blabla, i didnt forgive her, instead i wanted to be a better boyfriend to further prevent such happenings i.e. i was a MEGA PUSSY.

Later, she kept cheating with various guys behind my back and I did not find this out until later.

I was enraged, but lo- I was the one that was dumped. lol

After that we got back together after her new-found love for me because, after all, no guy could or would treat her better than I. I guess I was just the best she could get at that time.

Regardless, It was then that I got my revenge and I started my cheating ways. I was so enraged and hurt by all that she had done the only way I could ever make her understand the pain was to dish it right back at her. I know, immature, selfish, and evil, but hey it worked. I fuked around with 3 girls and told her about every single one of them. She was torn. Then I dumped her and told her that i didn't love her.

oh well.


anywayz, years later I found myself alone. Playing the field, but nothing meaningful. It was quite selfish, something I needed, but I was nonetheless a very lonely person.

So there I was, ready to commit again, and I got another GF, and what did i do? I cheated on her twice. I loved her, but i still cheated on her.

and again, now I am alone. Only this time- "playing the field" doesnt appeal to me, and sure I get my fair share of girls every now and again- but its completely meaningless, completely and utterly useless.

I dont really have any "gal pals", and I don't really hang out with girls. I either kinda know them, or im doing stuff with them.

And you know.....it seems to pointless to me.









So to make this short: I guess I cheated to get my revenge.....but now it seems to be this defense mechanism because I dont trust women for shit. And so i say: i better cheat before she does.

shitty, i know, but what can i do?

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quote:

Originally posted by xx_lucy_xx I agree to this point. I am scared to commit, and always think there must be something better out there, maybe i am wrong to think that and should settle for second best, i just dont want to have that attitude all my life. Some people may commit, i.e get married fore security, and so there not alone etc which leads settling for second best, and then when other opertunites which arise may seem better that what the person is currently involved with, therfor making them "cheat." Probably the whole "the grass is greener on the otherside" thing.

runt u like 15?


my thoughts later.

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Fortuna Favet Fortibus.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr. Pink I remember when I was younger... I had a beautiful girlfriend that I thought i loved....rather, it was just my own little perception of what "love" was and how some one is supposed to act when "in love".. anywayz- she cheated on me. Right away in the relationship and I automatically attributed this cheating she had done to be something wrong with ME. blabla, i didnt forgive her, instead i wanted to be a better boyfriend to further prevent such happenings i.e. i was a MEGA PUSSY. Later, she kept cheating with various guys behind my back and I did not find this out until later. I was enraged, but lo- I was the one that was dumped. lol After that we got back together after her new-found love for me because, after all, no guy could or would treat her better than I. I guess I was just the best she could get at that time. Regardless, It was then that I got my revenge and I started my cheating ways. I was so enraged and hurt by all that she had done the only way I could ever make her understand the pain was to dish it right back at her. I know, immature, selfish, and evil, but hey it worked. I fuked around with 3 girls and told her about every single one of them. She was torn. Then I dumped her and told her that i didn't love her. oh well. anywayz, years later I found myself alone. Playing the field, but nothing meaningful. It was quite selfish, something I needed, but I was nonetheless a very lonely person. So there I was, ready to commit again, and I got another GF, and what did i do? I cheated on her twice. I loved her, but i still cheated on her. and again, now I am alone. Only this time- "playing the field" doesnt appeal to me, and sure I get my fair share of girls every now and again- but its completely meaningless, completely and utterly useless.

maybe its time you switched teams?