On monday night i came to the conclusion that the whole 'educated' music thing is crap.

Digweed was mad, he had masses of people eating from the palm of his hand - yet everyone claims that most of the masses are not very well versed in dance music atm.

Listening to his set i realised (for about the 150,000th time in my life) that prog runs on exactly the same principals as trance. So why does it seem that half trance fans love prog, but the other half find it boring?

Its not musical education or complexity. LOL - it makes me laugh that some prog fans go on about how trance is just build up breakdown music, and then praise djs' who play tracks with 15 minute build ups and breakdowns.

I know Digweed and Sasha and those guys dont play the kool mcgool super amazing always changing top of the line prog stuff that gets the elitests in a tizz - but trance is constantly judged on tiesto and pvd, so prog will be judged on digweed and sasha.

The music may be more slightly (and i stress slightly) more subtle than the trance of today and the aesthitics might be a little different, but in all honesty its the same shit - going for the same result.

I dunno i had a point somewhere here, and its my lunchbreak, so im in a rush - but i did ponder on this one for quite a while and came to the conclusion that its all context. Put a n00b into a trance room for 8 hours theyd be in love with trance, do the same with prog and youd get the same result.

- still it leaves me with the one unanswered question -

why does it seem that once a trance fan gets jaded and goes to prog, they dont turn back ---i thought this one through - and i think it might be more about the fact that u grow up and the higher bpms dont do it for u as much as when u are younger, and the obviousness of melody beigns to be a bit boring ---But this doesnt make it any more intelligent just different.

*so yeah i had a point, but lost it. :/

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well said


i dont think the music is any more intelligent necessarily, but i think the listeners as they grow and age get an opinion which is more refined, as they know what they like and what they dont like.


its unfortunate when loved ones grow older and they no longer like the music they used too... *sigh*

like ishkur says:

trance got so sweet it threw up on itself.

And I imagine e-tarded trance lovers have similar experiences before going to prog.

Actually, I tend to think of it as people realize there's more to EDM than the 'happy hands in the air' feel that uplifting trance provides. Progressive is an offshoot of classic trance [pre-99] the same way uplifting trance is, but they have different tones and moods associated with them, and it is the greater variation in the those elements that draw people away from trance.

I mean, when you listen to a good progressive set, and I mean really good, it can take you through all types of moods and tones, whereas uplifting trance is generally limited in that way. If you look at the success of Sasha and Digweed as a duo, and listen to their sets, they are probably the best example of using the depth of the progressive style to take the audience on a trip through whatever amount of hours they perform for. It's not that progressive is more 'intellegent', it's just that it has more depth in that way IMO.

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Last edited by Sly_Guy on Nov-03-2005 at 03:21

true slyguy i get what ur saying there.

hmmz - the thing is there is enough good trance around of varying emotion to be able to do the same with trance....joof, mike and lawrence can do it - hence their great respect from people who know about trance i guess.

i guess u may be right there - but hmm - i think there is enough varience in trance for it to be done there as well - there are a few local boys starting to do it - and sasha and digweed used to do it with trance 8 or so years ago i guess

dunno guess it'd be good to see more big names do it.

(it is a hard thing to do tho')

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Last edited by Light The Fuse on Nov-03-2005 at 03:40

This should so go in the MD, see what some of the prog-elitist-knobs in there have to say about it.

I have you agree with ya JPL.

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i think it all lies in predictability aspect of trance.


most ppl assuming unpredictability == intelligence.


a prog track progression sometimes makes you think 'where do we go from here?' instead of 'follow the leader' (read: synths) .. i think this is why prog is more interesting compared with most trance track out there today..

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quote:

Originally posted by tachyon a prog track progression sometimes makes you think 'where do we go from here?'

main word in there being "sometimes".

Sometimes trance does that too. And sometimes prog doesn't, its as predictable as a shit after indian food a good proportion of the time.

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*cue idiot who doesnt know anything about music*

*enters pkc!*

why is predictability a problem? for me, i think its one of the best parts of music. most stuff thats unpredictable (say, classic classical) sounds fvcking terrible.

quote:

why does it seem that once a trance fan gets jaded and goes to prog, they dont turn back ---i thought this one through - and i think it might be more about the fact that u grow up and the higher bpms dont do it for u as much as when u are younger, and the obviousness of melody beigns to be a bit boring ---But this doesnt make it any more intelligent just different

i reckon its coz what got you into trance can only keep you there for so long. even pkc, the useless euphoric-loving moron finds most stuff released today to be truly awful. i can only imagine what you pre 2000 experts feel like. i doubt its got anything to do with 'growing up' so to speak.

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hahaha most of the people who buy records dont even have an education.

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quote:

Originally posted by Anomyst hahaha most of the people who buy records dont even have an education.

har har har

we're are qualified in the art of life history

art of mong?

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quote:

Originally posted by Light The Fuse true slyguy i get what ur saying there. hmmz - the thing is there is enough good trance around of varying emotion to be able to do the same with trance....joof, mike and lawrence can do it - hence their great respect from people who know about trance i guess. i guess u may be right there - but hmm - i think there is enough varience in trance for it to be done there as well - there are a few local boys starting to do it - and sasha and digweed used to do it with trance 8 or so years ago i guess dunno guess it'd be good to see more big names do it. (it is a hard thing to do tho')

I agree, but I'm speaking more on a general term. DJs like J00F, Orkidea, or Lawrence do play trance with a lot of depth, but on the whole, there are few DJs who play the way they do. Depth is possible, but because uplifting trance has become so popular, that is unfortunately the predominant sound in many trance DJs sets, which leads to amany nights where it's all hands in the air.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN why is predictability a problem? for me, i think its one of the best parts of music. most stuff thats unpredictable (say, classic classical) sounds fvcking terrible. i reckon its coz what got you into trance can only keep you there for so long. even pkc, the useless euphoric-loving moron finds most stuff released today to be truly awful. i can only imagine what you pre 2000 experts feel like. i doubt its got anything to do with 'growing up' so to speak.

it may not have anything to do with growing up, but to me, a good set is more than just one sound or musical idea done 30 different ways. EDM by nature is already predictable in it's beat structure, it's breakdowns and buildups, so to me, by necessity the moods and tones should be emphasized in their differences.

As for the oldschoolers, a lot of them complain about the decreasing quality of dance music, and often times, the lack of variations and ingenuity in the sets put out these days are their most prominant complaints. And only after I had really listened to some older sets of DJs did I understand excatly what they were talking about. Forget the age of the tracks, or whether you like them or not, listen to the set, listen to the sounds, listen to the pace, mood, and overall feel of each track. You'll find a much much wider variety on display in those sets, something that is woefully missing these days. And this isn't just for trance DJs, but all DJs.

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