Ok, so im looking at buying these badboys, and ive been doing some random research, what i would like to know is:

Does the BPM counter display the choons BPM immediately and precisely (digitally, like in Traktor DJ Studio) or is it kind of like on old mixers where its averaged out? Seeing as it playsback mp3s and CD audio i would imagine it scans the entire track and gives a precise BPM.

With that being said, am i to assume that when the +/- pitch control is used, it also displays the true BPM of the track?

I've got old vinyl decks but ive gotten really tired of choons going out of sync and spending too much time trying to beatmatch (yeah im lazy). Im either going with the Pioneers or Gemini CDJ-02..but no BPM counter, however, seeing as this is digital were taking about, am i to assume tracks being beatmatched will NOT EVER go out of sync and therefor, not really making it much harder for me to beatmatch without the BPM counter?

Any help? Thanks!

___________________
Buying trance is a lot like buying a car. Don`t buy American.

Last edited by kamil on Jan-20-2006 at 13:54

Don't buy the gemini's that's for sure.

The BPM counter works, but will only get you so far. You'll need to practice to get better. It will still be easier than spinning vinyl, however.

quote:

Originally posted by kamil Ok, so im looking at buying these badboys, and ive been doing some random research, what i would like to know is: Does the BPM counter display the choons BPM immediately and precisely (digitally, like in Traktor DJ Studio) or is it kind of like on old mixers where its averaged out? Seeing as it playsback mp3s and CD audio i would imagine it scans the entire track and gives a precise BPM. With that being said, am i to assume that when the +/- pitch control is used, it also displays the true BPM of the track? I've got old vinyl decks but ive gotten really tired of choons going out of sync and spending too much time trying to beatmatch (yeah im lazy). Im either going with the Pioneers or Gemini CDJ-02..but no BPM counter, however, seeing as this is digital were taking about, am i to assume tracks being beatmatched will NOT EVER go out of sync and therefor, not really making it much harder for me to beatmatch without the BPM counter? Any help? Thanks!

quote:

Originally posted by Ryan0751 Don't buy the gemini's that's for sure. The BPM counter works, but will only get you so far. You'll need to practice to get better. It will still be easier than spinning vinyl, however.

But how accurate is the BPM counter? I mean, i spend 2 seconds looking at the BPM counter in Traktor DJ Studio, looking at the other choons BPM, match them, and in under 7 seconds im done. Is it that easy on the Pioneers?

___________________
Buying trance is a lot like buying a car. Don`t buy American.

lol if u cbf beatmatching u cbf djing.. u may aswell get 2 tracks n just crossfade at the end of em without matching them
thats my advise

They are FAIRLY accurate. But they still only approximate (which Traktor does as well, there's no magic there), and they only show you an approximation to the nearest BPM.

Put a CDJ in 6% pitch mode (.02% pitch resolution mode), play a track. Then move the pitch slider up and down and see how much movement it takes to affect the pitch a full "beat per minute", quite a bit! You'll never get accurate enough using the BPM counter alone.

quote:

Originally posted by kamil But how accurate is the BPM counter? I mean, i spend 2 seconds looking at the BPM counter in Traktor DJ Studio, looking at the other choons BPM, match them, and in under 7 seconds im done. Is it that easy on the Pioneers?

They work more like a guide, but you shouldnt use them solely to beatmatch. They are also sometimes a little off. Ive had one track say 129 and another say 130 and they were perfectly matched, although it was probably like 129.9. And they are displayed within a few seconds of selecting the track but many times the initial bpm displayed is off by like 2 bpm, but as soon as you start playing the track it corrects itself.

Does anyone use the BPM counter more than not when playing live? i mean, it sounds like far less work than having to spend a couple minutes to try and beatmatch by guessing and checking how much faster or slower a track needs to be in order to be in sync.

___________________
Buying trance is a lot like buying a car. Don`t buy American.

Umm, that's the thing. Once you get past the hurdles of learning to beatmatch, you'll be able to do it in about 10 seconds. Without any BPM counter. Seriously!

If you're playing out live, you better be able to do that.

quote:

Originally posted by kamil Does anyone use the BPM counter more than not when playing live? i mean, it sounds like far less work than having to spend a couple minutes to try and beatmatch by guessing and checking how much faster or slower a track needs to be in order to be in sync.

quote:

Originally posted by Ryan0751 Umm, that's the thing. Once you get past the hurdles of learning to beatmatch, you'll be able to do it in about 10 seconds. Without any BPM counter. Seriously! If you're playing out live, you better be able to do that.

See, the problem ive always had is that ive always been able to beatmatch quite easily without the bpm counter on my gemini turntables, but theyd always go out of sync, almost always. I did get lucky a couple of times where they actually stayed in sync for like 4 minutes. however, these are direct drives and im guessing its more of a hardware fault than me doing a half ass job of beatmatching.

im sure the pitch control is far more accurate and consistent on cdjs than with vinyl....or could it be just me?

___________________
Buying trance is a lot like buying a car. Don`t buy American.

Well cheap turntables doesn't help. But that's the skill with vinyl, even on my Technics I ride the pitch ever so slightly to keep things in sync. With CD decks, they hold their pitch 100% perfectly, and corrections are easier to make.

But the point is that the BPM counters will NEVER get you close enough to a locked match.

You really have to put the time in with lots of practice. It's really worth it!

quote:

Originally posted by kamil See, the problem ive always had is that ive always been able to beatmatch quite easily without the bpm counter on my gemini turntables, but theyd always go out of sync, almost always. I did get lucky a couple of times where they actually stayed in sync for like 4 minutes. however, these are direct drives and im guessing its more of a hardware fault than me doing a half ass job of beatmatching. im sure the pitch control is far more accurate and consistent on cdjs than with vinyl....or could it be just me?

quote:

Originally posted by Ryan0751 Well cheap turntables doesn't help. But that's the skill with vinyl, even on my Technics I ride the pitch ever so slightly to keep things in sync. With CD decks, they hold their pitch 100% perfectly, and corrections are easier to make. But the point is that the BPM counters will NEVER get you close enough to a locked match. You really have to put the time in with lots of practice. It's really worth it!

I just spent about 1-2 minutes beatmatching Flight 643 w/ Lethal Industry (Picotto Mix) and the transition was flawless, as was the beatmatching consistent. What i usually do is, play with the pitch fader, then when it sounds *about* right, i use the pitch bend down to see if the choon is actually slower, if gets slower i just keep raising the pitch fader up, check again, pitch bend down, check again, and so on.

I feel as though this is tedious, how do you do it? More or less the same?

___________________
Buying trance is a lot like buying a car. Don`t buy American.

quote:

Originally posted by kamil Does anyone use the BPM counter more than not when playing live? i mean, it sounds like far less work than having to spend a couple minutes to try and beatmatch by guessing and checking how much faster or slower a track needs to be in order to be in sync.

I hope you're not doing this for the wrong reasons...

AS you said it takes you 7 seconds to beatmatch ith a bpm counter. Usually it also takes you 7-10 seconds to beatmatch without one(if you practice...more than a little).

Also, people (I'm guessing) RARELY RELY ON bpm counters when playing live.

Lastly....spending a few minutes trying to beatmatch means you need to practice a lot more.

You didn't start spinning vinyl yesterday by any chance, have you?