Calling all experts

I have an accoustic guitar part as an audio file (wav). It has been recorded live and therefore the timing is not very tight.

I need to import this part into my project in Cubase, however it is very obvious that the timing is off when it's played together with my other tracks (the kick, hihats etc.). So now my question is:
How do I "quantize" this audio?

I tried turning off "snapping" and then split the audiofile exactly at each "peak" in the wave-file, then turning on the "snapping" and moving the parts to the ticks. This helped a bit, but obviously it was then audible that the audio file had been cutted and merged etc.
I believe that there must be some software out there (it might even be possible to do this in Cubase) that will automatically detect each "beat" in the guitar part, calculate the average BPM and then quantize each "beat" using advanced timecompressing and timestretching between each "beat", so that every single "beat" is exactly on time, while avoiding audible clicks etc. in between the beats...

Oh yeah, and please don't ask me what a guitar part is doing in a trance track I might have listened a little bit too much to Ibiza melodic guitar trance lately ;-)
And to answer the other obvious question: NO, I do not want to play this part on a synth using midi, even though that would certainly help the timing. I want this "real life" recorded audio incorporated into my project.

Can anyone help me here?

Thanx in advance...

Regards

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RiValMan

- Pumping the bits using:
My beloved MacBook Pro, Logic Pro X, UAD hardware and software and tons of plug-ins...

My thoughts:

If the part was recorded without effects that helps. If not do it again (if you did it in the first place). Then chop up each 'strum' and play it through a reverb. That should help to hide the cuts a bit. Quatize each part to the point in the track you want it, then bounce it out as a new audio file to make it easier to work with.
Can't think of anything else.

quote:

Originally posted by skot_e My thoughts: If the part was recorded without effects that helps. If not do it again (if you did it in the first place). Then chop up each 'strum' and play it through a reverb. That should help to hide the cuts a bit. Quatize each part to the point in the track you want it, then bounce it out as a new audio file to make it easier to work with. Can't think of anything else.

Yeah, but the thing is that I didn't record the part (it's a sample). In it already includes tons of reverb and this makes timestretching and compressing quite audible (at least when done in Cubase, but I also suspect that the Cubase timestretcher is terrible).
I know there is Beat Detective, but that's for Pro Tools. Maybe there was some stand alone software that would do this?

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RiValMan

- Pumping the bits using:
My beloved MacBook Pro, Logic Pro X, UAD hardware and software and tons of plug-ins...

personally i'd give ableton a go and see how that went ... the time stretching feature is far better than cubase!

In my opinion the ONLY way about this is ableton. See what auto warp does; it may or may not work for your specific track depending on many things. In any case you can zoom in manually and drop warp markers where you want them. Your track on one channel, and a simple 4/4 drum loop on another. Play gently with the warp marker until it is right. It will take some getting use too but in the end, it is the only real way of going about this.

can you perhaps post a link to your track?

This is what Hitpoints are for in Cubase. It functions almost exactly as what you say you want - you tell it to detect them automatically, which is generally pretty reliable for solo instruments, but you can modify the locations if need be. Then it will automatically sync them by timestretching as required.

No need for Ableton Live or any other fancy tool. This feature's been around for a long time and is part of the bread-and-butter of Cubase.

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quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut This is what Hitpoints are for in Cubase. It functions almost exactly as what you say you want - you tell it to detect them automatically, which is generally pretty reliable for solo instruments, but you can modify the locations if need be. Then it will automatically sync them by timestretching as required. No need for Ableton Live or any other fancy tool. This feature's been around for a long time and is part of the bread-and-butter of Cubase.

I tried the hitpoints in Cubase. Had to modify them alot since the automatic detection was waaaaay off (even when adjusting the sensitivity slider). Anyway, the thing is that the audio is now timestretched/compressed so all transients are on time (more or less), however it SOUNDS terrible. The part now has an ugly flanger-like effect all over it, and there's crackle everywhere in the music. I suspect that the reason is that the part has a lot of natural reverb in it, and it sounds terrible to compress/stretch it with the built in function of Cubase. I tried different algorithms in Cubase, but none of them gave me a transparent result.
Am I doing something wrong or is it asking too much of Cubase to compress/stretch a "guitar/vocal+reverb"-part without any artefacts?
Do anyone think Ableton can compress/stretch seamlessly when it's a "wet" part? (We're probably not talking stretching any more than 90 - 110 % of original material).

Thanks for the advices so far. Appreciate it.

Regards

___________________
RiValMan

- Pumping the bits using:
My beloved MacBook Pro, Logic Pro X, UAD hardware and software and tons of plug-ins...

You have to be carefull where you modify the hitpoints, only stretch deadspace!!! Stretch the time INBETWEEN the plucks of your guitar, don't stretch the actuall plucks.

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https://soundcloud.com/ghostea stuff

For the best results you probably have to do this manually, carefully preserving the transients and picking the right places to timestretch. Obviously it will take you quite some time, but if it's only a few bars long I would say it's worth it. If it proves to be impossible to do transparently, then I guess using that fact creatively or masking the worst parts of it with effects are your only possibilities.

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Soundcloud

quote:

Originally posted by RivalMan Am I doing something wrong or is it asking too much of Cubase to compress/stretch a "guitar/vocal+reverb"-part without any artefacts?

You're asking too much of any program to do it without any artifacts. The important question is how audible those artifacts will be.

If the timing is way off and you're timestretching at a ratio of more than 20-30% up or down, there are going to be hideous artifacts no matter what you use to do the stretching. The only way to deal with it in that instance is to do very careful manual edits; to shorten, you might have to actually cut pieces and use envelopes to soften the release, and to lengthen, you might have to actually repeat and splice material, or do partial timestretching and use heavy reverb/delay to fake the rest.

It's easy when you're only slightly off-tempo or out of sync; when there's a significant difference, getting everything in sync is kind of an art form in itself. If the hitpoints in Cubase aren't doing it for you, and you know you're using them correctly, then I doubt that any other tool will do a better job (though I suppose it doesn't hurt to try).

This is why recording artists generally use the metronome in their DAW of choice when recording instrumentals or vocals for electronic tracks. It's very difficult to sync after the fact.

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2048-06-66 - Spastic & Whocares ¶ Although I'm Actually Flattered
9999-45-81 - Tweaker Gimp ☼ I Probably Won't Even Go To This But I Have To Make Sure I Fill Up All The Available Space Here

i tend to cut the parts into four bar sections or smaller and stretch them all seperately until they fit.

problems start when working with large amounts of audio cos it takes time.

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