quote:

Originally posted by D-res an all-powerful and benevolent God being compatible with pain and suffering.

to get shit started.
more of a belief though with a logic structure.
i dont believe any god would allow life to edure pain and suffering.
therefore, i do not believe there is a god.
or
we have a god and he is unfair.
but we all have learned life is unfair.
and to look out for ourselves outside of beliefs.
which puts me back at the beginning.
no god.

___________________


http://www.cev3.com/

well of course if a creature endures pain because of human action, based on the fact that God gave us free will, then you cant deny that it would in fact be compatible. he may be all powerfull and all loving but if he intervenes (sp?) with our act of free will then he's denying us to freely use that gift. It also could be that since the rules more or less for getting into heaven is living a good sinless (as possible) life, and by our harming another animal and causing it pain and suffering is just a way of "testing" us. we do things like that, we're sinning and we dont deserve to be accepted into heaven.

in the case that a creature suffers completely free of human cause, then you could argue that its the devils work or whomever you want to blame for the cause of evil. according to the christian idealogy of a God whom set rules and an angel or however many angels said no, we're not going to follow those rules and were cast out of heaven. it could simply be that they are the root of this evil.

plus i have to ask, do you believe that a bird or a fish for example is conscious? of course to a certain level they may be aware of their sorroundings and aware that some thing or things are causing them discomfort but are they really conscious to the extent of being able to understand their own lives and survival? since according to christian teachings, there is no such thing as an animal heaven, do we know that perhaps God doesnt care about all these creatures running around, atleast to the extent of helping them in times of pain? since God created man, and our lives are a test for whether we should be accepted into heaven or not, then it doesnt matter if other creatures are suffering, since they arent the subject of this science experiment we call life. what matters is how we act while we're here on earth.

i didnt really agree/disagree with any of that.
you make valid points.

quote:

Originally posted by D-res in the case that a creature suffers completely free of human cause, then you could argue that its the devils work or whomever you want to blame for the cause of evil. according to the christian idealogy of a God whom set rules and an angel or however many angels said no, we're not going to follow those rules and were cast out of heaven. it could simply be that they are the root of this evil.

i think evil is in us.
it comes from within us and through us, hurts us.
we have to get it right ourselves.
its a failsafe plan in the end.

___________________


http://www.cev3.com/

well in the section you quoted, the idea of evil being part of human nature alone, then how to do you explain pain and suffering that is in no part cause of human interaction or free will? just the sick cycle of life?

There is one reason and one reason only that God created humans with free will.... he/she/it wants us to choose to love him/her/it. It is not enough for God that we love God, we must want to love him. Really, this only makes sence because what good is love if one is compelled to love. Due to free will being essential to the very reason we were created any impingment on our free will would result in negating our purpose. Subsequently, while an all knowing and powerful God could interviegn on our behalves and safeguard us from pain and suffering doing so would deny him the reward for which he created us therefore he refrains.

how are you gonna know joy if you know of no sorrow?

___________________
All rhythm evolves around a kick...

quote:

Originally posted by Moral Hazard There is one reason and one reason only that God created humans with free will....

Where is god. Ive never seen proof of him, nor proof of his existence. Where is your god when people are killed from terrorists, where is your god while homeless people starve to death, where is your god when some of the most kind and compassionate people are striken down from this earth.

God is merely an illusion from across time.

I have to leave for work else I would further my arugement.

quote:

Originally posted by Pjotr G how are you gonna know joy if you know of no sorrow?

Joy comes in a bottle, I know joy.

as said in your previous thread, omnipotency and omnibenevolence are incompatible.

___________________
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Jackson, venomX, jamie, Renegade, Konjin, Akridrot, Miss Bliss.
Psy-T - Down The Rabbit Hole (400minute long acid set)

Oh, and since we're talking about religion, here is my perception of religion, religion is a night light, metaphorically. Many children are scared of the dark and use a nightlight to cope with it. They are scared of the intangibles, what could possibly happen. Humans are generally scared of death. Scared of the fact that the things they have achieved here on earth could be moot as inexorably you will just rot in the ground whether you invented the shuttle or just injected heroin you got after you sucked off three people for a cheap seedy gram. Thusly, religions are created to cope with the intangibles that come with death. It's pretty basic human nature to me.