quote:

Originally posted by igottaknow When are the die hard Bush supporters here going to roll on their boy or are they going to hold on to the bitter end and go down with the ship?

Take you pic: The Titanic or the Edmond Fitzerald.

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quote:

Originally posted by igottaknow When are the die hard Bush supporters here going to roll on their boy or are they going to hold on to the bitter end and go down with the ship?

Yeah thats what I have been thinking lately...what is it going to take for these guys to stop supporting Bush and his administration?

quote:

Originally posted by Shamen DJ's Take you pic: The Titanic or the Edmond Fitzerald.

Well with the Titanic there were survivors, everyone died on the Edmond Fitzgerald. So either there's going to be a big drop but still a few remaning like the Titanic, or everyone will go under like the Edmond Fitzgerald....there has been calls for a shakeup but I don't think that is going to happen...unfortunitely...

I was re-thinking it and I'd say the most likely scenario is if it goes to shit (civil war) and we pull our troops out in failure their fall back position will be the same as in Vietnam. We could have won if only we were able to take the gloves off and if only liberals hadn't turned public opinion against a just cause.

But hell you already hearing Rummy paving the way. That we had to go through a civil war to achieve our great democracy. Like a civil war in Iraq is a natural course of progress. Or like when Bush said we will have to wait 20 years before we can judge. Like Republican's ever waited 20 years to judge a failed policy of a Democrat President?

I'm sure years later even if this ends in a disaster he's going to say he still would have done it even if he knew the end result. Because its more important to fight terrorism (even though that was a false pretext for the war) than to do nothing. He already said the same thing about the mistaken (falsified) int-el on the WMDs that he still would have gone to war even if he knew they didn't have WMDs.

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it's not even a question of supporting bush it's who to support? personally i know alot of people who don't like bush but side with him currently since there's no one else out there. i voted for bush but was hoping kerry would somehow change my mind. he failed, as he failed for most people i know even the ones who voted for him.

i'd gladly see him go.

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Anti-Purple Alliance.

Sad to say this, but it MIGHT take another terrorist attack or a big natural disastor like Katrina in order to wake people up. One thing i've noticed from watching interviews with people Bush has appointment or who have been a part of the Bush administration, is that they always seem disconnected. It's like they know something that they are afraid to tell us, but that we already know...that our troops are stretched too thin, our economy is hanging on a thread (even though they wont admit it) and that one of the reasons why we were so unprepared with things like Katrina and the response is that this administration

1. Is too concerned about going on the offense then they are about defense (which was one of the things Kerry mentioned, and people are starting to see now, such as our ports being insecure, which the whole Dubai thing was mostly about). They haven't even succeeded being on the offensive for that matter...poor planning all over the board....

2. The National Guard was over in Iraq when they should have been here (but again our troops are stretched thin)

3. Our country has such a large deficit, that god knows where the money we do have is coming from (China...Social Security..). Defense at home is important, and this is one of the things the Bush administration doesn't do right, their domestic police is almost non-existence (and their foriegn policy has made the world less secure, and has created more terrorism).

Another thing that might seem unrelated but why haven't we heard much about that blackout three years ago?? To me there's something fishy about that. If there was something wrong with the system, it would have happened before I would think, or since, but it hasn't....something they haven't told us (and there's been hardly any mentioning of it since it happened). Especially because it was such widespread....

quote:

Originally posted by Lepanto it's not even a question of supporting bush it's who to support? personally i know alot of people who don't like bush but side with him currently since there's no one else out there. i voted for bush but was hoping kerry would somehow change my mind. he failed, as he failed for most people i know even the ones who voted for him. i'd gladly see him go.

Kerry was not the best candidate, I'll concede that, even though I voted for him because I've disliked Bush since day one (when he went against Gore). I do feel, however, he raised some very good points, that just now we are starting to realize, like the security at our ports, and our poor health care system, our deficit, our failure in planning with Iraq, and the failure with FEMA and our Homeland Security Department (exemplified with Katrina) and our failure with defense...and of course Osama bin Laden still not being caught (who knows where he is...or if he is still alive??)...

quote:

Originally posted by Spirit5 Kerry was not the best candidate, I'll concede that, even though I voted for him because I've disliked Bush since day one (when he went against Gore). I do feel, however, he raised some very good points, that just now we are starting to realize, like the security at our ports, and our poor health care system, our deficit, our failure in planning with Iraq, and the failure with FEMA and our Homeland Security Department (exemplified with Katrina) and our failure with defense...and of course Osama bin Laden still not being caught (who knows where he is...or if he is still alive??)...

that doesn't say much about the democrats now does it? you have a clown like bush and u can't find someone to take his head clean off? i think that's rather pathetic, bro. he did raise some good points but had NO PLAN or IDEAS of his own he was like a critisizing-Bush-machine, it was so sad to watch. about osama bin laden...too many theories, not enough time, just like WMDs

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Anti-Purple Alliance.

Interesting article about this on the front page of the WSJ today (Mar 20) ... something about how we are finally learning the lessons from Vietnam and how they can be applied to Iraq.


Anyway, I hope however is US President has the balls to stick it out much longer. You'll read today a military consensus that if the USA would have stuck it in for several more years in Vietnam they could have achieved victory and were on the right path.

Learning how to fight something new doesn't happen overnight. And yea terrorist hate the USA, but that fight must go on. The USA must ensure its military is flexible and adaptable, not big and cumbersome.

Brut force will not win the war in Iraq today, its not a matter of boots on the ground or tanks on the street.



Anyway, as die-hard Bush supporter (I would characterize myself this as I guess I am one of the what ~20% that still support him?) I find most his fault in domestic policy and being able to admit mistakes to late. I most disappointed in the mess that he has let the Republican congress go amock.

If only the democrats weren't so radical... I would wish of a liberal party to come to power and vie for control of the house and senate. I believe government always works best when the branchs of power lie in different hands....

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quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus If only the democrats weren't so radical...

yeah we're just a bunch of raving lunatics compared to you gun-ho neocons. if we had control of the country we would revive Lenin, turn the country into a communist state and let terrorist take over the world.

quote:

I would wish of a liberal party to come to power and vie for control of the house and senate. I believe government always works best when the branchs of power lie in different hands....

i'm surprised you say that the republicans always complained that they couldn't ever get anything done because they didn't have control of both the house and senate. now they do and look at all the great things they've accomplished.

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quote:

Originally posted by igottaknow yeah we're just a bunch of raving lunatics compared to you gun-ho neocons.

No, but it leaves little moral fortitude when the party forgoes all their principles to delcare that they would pull out of Iraq and never allow a company to operate ports in the USA because they are Arab

I think the ideal mix would be a Republican president with a democratic house and a republican (or ideally, libertarian) Senate.

quote:

i'm surprised you say that the republicans always complained that they couldn't ever get anything done because they didn't have control of both the house and senate. now they do and look at all the great things they've accomplished.

I never said that. I always was cautious about what would happen, in a way because I support the party I was happy, but it was bittersweet because I knew maximum good would not come out of it..

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