My friend and I had a discussion about this the other day. We concluded that the arts have contributed far more to the advancement of humanity than science could ever hope to, and I'll stand by that.

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A lot of this segues with the topic about the evolution of religious beliefs and the answer here is pretty similar. While it's unlikely that there would be much positive selection pressure for "creativity" itself, there likely would be positive selection pressures for the sort of cognitve functions that give rise to creativity.

There are sexual selection theories for the emergence of creativity (an individual capable of stimulating the senses of a potential mate has an advantage over those that aren't so capable - so human creativity, by this logic, would serve the same function as, say, a bird's mating call) but the problem here is that it doesn't explain how the parts of the brain responsible for creativity emerged in the first place.

I think the answer lies in our proclivity to engage with what anthropologist Pascal Boyer terms "supernormal stimuli". With regards to music specifically, he writes:

quote:

There is no human society without some musical tradition. Although the traditions are very different, some principles can be found everywhere. For instance, musical sounds are always closer to pure sound than noise.... To exaggerate a little, what you get from musical sounds are super-vowels (the pure frequencies as opposed to the mixed ones that define ordinary vowels) and pure consonants (produced by rhythmic instruments). The properties make music an intensified form of sound-experience from which the cortex receives purified and therefore intense doses of what usually activates it.... This phenomenon is not unique to music. Humans also fill their environments with artifacts that overstimulate the visual cortex, for instance by providing pure saturated colour instead of the dull browns and greens of their familiar environments.

(From pages 132-133 of this book, which I think I've referenced on these forums about 100 times. )

So, in other words, we have parts of our brain devoted to the processing and creation of language that are stimulated when we listen to or produce music. There's compelling neurological evidence for this hypothesis (link) although it's not yet conclusive. There is, however, evidence of animals being engaged by supernormal stimuli to the same extent that humans are (see some of the work of Nikolaas Tinbergen) except the difference is that animals don't have the capacity for novelty that humans do - so animals, in a sense, are capable of appreciating "art" (supernormal stimuli) that specifically engages the parts of their brain that deal with sensory perception, though they are incapable of producing such "art". Humans, however, do have the capacity to create novel supernormal stimuli and this is likely a side-effect (or "spandrel") of our capacity for novelty in the expression of language.

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Last edited by Renegade on Feb-23-2008 at 06:53

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Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov My friend and I had a discussion about this the other day. We concluded that the arts have contributed far more to the advancement of humanity than science could ever hope to, and I'll stand by that.

Both contribute/have contributed enormously, and will continue to.

Unfortunately we like to make division lines to piece our lives into neat little edible pie charts to make it easier to fathom, but really the line between science and art is blurred only by dictum.

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Question: What role does creativity (music, art, literature, etc.) play in the evolution of homo sapiens? Why does creativity even exist? How would creativity aid survival of fittest? What purpose is there for creativity? This came up while listening to music. I thought, "What is the point in putting sounds together, and why does it sound good to us?"

Creativity is a natural side effect of experiencing this infinite universe with our seemingly finite range of sensory impulses.

Survival of the fittest is obsolete, by the way.

I'd give a detailed explanation of my thoughts on the subject but I can't, kinda busy, this is an interesting thread though.

I think that music MIGHT be part of the way people select mates. Either that or our brains just like patterns. I read somewhere that most men learn instruments and stuff to pick up chicks rather than for the music, and that women use it as some type of mood enhancer.

Here's an interesting link on where I read that: http://www.howmusicreallyworks.com/.../1_5.html#1.5.1

As for theatre and it's cousins film etc. I think it creates a pseudo-social environment, and that's why we like it. Same thing with books.

Creativity as a means of courtship makes sense because sex seems to be ingrained in popular culture. Sex sells?

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Question: What role does creativity (music, art, literature, etc.) play in the evolution of homo sapiens? Why does creativity even exist? How would creativity aid survival of fittest? What purpose is there for creativity? This came up while listening to music. I thought, "What is the point in putting sounds together, and why does it sound good to us?"

Not many people know that in 1931, Adolf Hitler made a visit to the United States, in the course of which he did some sightseeing, had a brief affair with a lady named Maxine in Keokuk, Iowa, tried peyote (which caused him to hallucinate hordes of frogs and toads wearing little boots and singing the Horst Wessel Lied, infiltrated a munitions plant near Detroit, met secretly with Vice-President Curtis regarding sealskin futures, and invented the electric can opener.

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quote:

Originally posted by DJ Shibby Survival of the fittest is obsolete, by the way.

Incorrect... survival of the fittest remains, the criteria for what is "fittest"; however, is changing.

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Originally posted by RickyM you're just a shit version of Moral Hazard. At least he knows what he's talking about.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN lol, i love it when moral feels the need to lay the smack down

Heck, if the game 'SPORE' puts music in as a social development, then it MUST be important...or something like that...

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"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Shibby Survival of the fittest is obsolete, by the way.

How so?

generate population
crossover and mutate selected individuals
mate population
asses fitness function for said population
discard individuals below arbitrary fitness function value
repeat

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