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trancaholic
Danish Prophet of Doom



Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Aalborg
Amsterdam to Muslim women: Drop the burka if you want unemployment benefits

From Der Spiegel
quote:
Amsterdam Mulls Axing Dole for Women in Burqas

An official in Holland's biggest city wants to introduce legislation that would ban unemployed women who wear a burqa from receiving welfare payments if it prevents them from finding a job. The issue is the latest Dutch soul-searching over its relations with its own immigrants.

The Multicultural Netherlands is having a serious identity crisis. These days, the country's immigrant melting pot is feeling more like a powderkeg. The latest spark in Holland's mini culture war came this week from the social affairs alderman for the city of Amsterdam, who says women who wear burqas are having trouble finding jobs. His solution? Take it off or lose your benefits.

Ahmed Aboutaleb has proposed introducing legislation that would allow the city to cut welfare payments to women who insist on wearing a burqa if it can prove the full-body covering is the reason she can't find a job.

"Nobody wants to hire someone with a burqa," he told the Dutch women's magazine Opzij. "In that case, I say: off with the burka and apply for work. If you don't want to do that, that's fine, but you don't get a benefit payment."


Aboutaleb, a member of Amsterdam's Labor Party (PvdA) and a Dutch citizen of Moroccan descent, made the comments in response to a recent ruling by Holland's Equality Commission siding with a Muslim woman who refused to shake hands with men at work.

The politician questioned whether she should be involved in education, with such rigid self-restrictions. "She has to realize that her behavior is building enormous obstacles for her in almost every situation. This woman must recognize that she is sidelining herself and that she runs the risk of being turned down for other jobs, too."

In the wake of the murder of Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh by an Islamic extremist in 2004, the country, once thought to be an exemplary multicultural society, began to question how well its Muslim immigrants have been integrated. Since then, the center-right government of Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkanende has introduced laws that make it harder for married immigrants to bring their partners with them to Holland and that require prospective immigrants to take tests in their homeland on their knowledge of the Dutch society and language before they can come to the Netherlands.

In December, the Dutch parliament in the Hague approved a law that would make it illegal to wear a burqa in public spaces. However, a commission is now seeking to determine whether the legislation is compatible with European human rights laws. The legislation was introduced by Geert Wilders, a conservative member of the Dutch parliament who was included on the same hit list that included Theo van Gogh and Ayaan Hirsi Ali, the makers of the film "Submission," which is highly critical of Islam's treatment of women.

Regardless of the outcome of the national law or the Amsterdam legislation, the ban would be more symbolic than anything else since, there are only an estimated 50 to 100 burqa-wearing women among the one million Muslims living in the Netherlands.

But Amsterdam sociologist Ruud Koopmans told the Süddeutsche Zeitung newspaper that a "ban on the burqa in public would be absurd. I would be surprised if the law goes through."

So the Netherlands proves once again that no-one can outdo the Dutch when it comes to being rude to foreigners. That sour note aside, I wish to point out three things that I feel should be addressed by the Amsterdam law-makers prior to putting these ideas into concrete laws. First, while I sympathize with the idea that tax-payers shouldn't finance the whims and quirks of religious fanatics, I think it's stupid to limit this to women who wears burkas. In principle, all religiously motivated reasons for not taking a job should lead to a stop of benefits.
Second, when can we safely say that the barrier is indeed at the religious person and not the employer? I do understand why nobody would hire someone they cannot see, but what about people who just wears head scarfs, hats or long braids next to their ears?
Finally, where's the fine line between religion and morals? Can we take away people's benefits for not wanting to work as a prosititute? Take away benefits from vegans that won't work at McDonald's? Pacifists not wanting to work for companies that are sub-contracters for the army?

Old Post Apr-23-2006 17:27  Denmark
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shaolin_Z
Hei Hu Quan



Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Austin, Texas, USA: TXTA #102

I personaly think Burqas are pretty stupid and unecessary but this law is fucked up. [Edit:They, not you (thanks for pointing it out St. Andrew) ] have a tyrannical goverment.


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"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
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Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

Last edited by shaolin_Z on Apr-23-2006 at 21:32

Old Post Apr-23-2006 20:12  United States
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Marc Summers
I must behave



Registered: Jan 2005
Location: New York, USA

Umm, isn't that against some equal opportunity law? Or do they not have those.

Old Post Apr-23-2006 21:13 
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malek
drinks your milkshake!



Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Montréal

good thing, who would hire a ninja anyways.


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Old Post Apr-24-2006 05:06 
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trancaholic
Danish Prophet of Doom



Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Aalborg

quote:
Originally posted by shaolin_Z
I personaly think Burqas are pretty stupid and unecessary but this law is fucked up. [Edit:They, not you (thanks for pointing it out St. Andrew) ] have a tyrannical goverment.

What's this, shaolin? Did you just expose yourself as the stereotypical geographically challenged American?
For some reason Holland was always the country that got mixed up with Denmark by the US-centric Americans I met last year. Would have thought that it would be Sweden or Norway, but apparently there's something unidentifiable dutch about Denmark...


quote:
Originally posted by Marc Summers
Umm, isn't that against some equal opportunity law? Or do they not have those.

I guess this is why the article says that they are currently checking up on the EU human rights laws.

Old Post Apr-24-2006 07:49  Denmark
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shaolin_Z
Hei Hu Quan



Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Austin, Texas, USA: TXTA #102

quote:
Originally posted by trancaholic
What's this, shaolin? Did you just expose yourself as the stereotypical geographically challenged American?
For some reason Holland was always the country that got mixed up with Denmark by the US-centric Americans I met last year. Would have thought that it would be Sweden or Norway, but apparently there's something unidentifiable dutch about Denmark...



___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

Old Post Apr-24-2006 08:51  United States
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Moongoose
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Apr 2003
Location: Celje, Slovenia

quote:
Aboutaleb, a member of Amsterdam's Labor Party (PvdA) and a Dutch citizen of Moroccan descent, made the comments in response to a recent ruling by Holland's Equality Commission siding with a Muslim woman who refused to shake hands with men at work.

The politician questioned whether she should be involved in education, with such rigid self-restrictions. "She has to realize that her behavior is building enormous obstacles for her in almost every situation. This woman must recognize that she is sidelining herself and that she runs the risk of being turned down for other jobs, too."


Do you have any more on this? Seem like an interesting case.


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Old Post Apr-24-2006 10:35  Slovenia
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Marc Summers
I must behave



Registered: Jan 2005
Location: New York, USA

Seriously, in the United states, they would get destroyed for doing that.

Look who we got dressing up as spider-man in a Toys R us advertisement.

Old Post Apr-24-2006 10:58 
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Purple
. . . . . . . . .



Registered: Jan 2005
Location: . . . . . . . . .

Well when some Muslim countries can force outside girls to wear Burqa when they are in their country, why cant Amsterdam force Burqa ladies not to wear it when in their country.


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Old Post Apr-24-2006 15:11 
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St_Andrew
I <3 NYC



Registered: May 2003
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

quote:
Originally posted by Purple
Well when some Muslim countries can force outside girls to wear Burqa when they are in their country, why cant Amsterdam force Burqa ladies not to wear it when in their country.


Because Holland is a free country with freedom of religion and tolerance (even if that is tolerance for idiocity)?

Old Post Apr-24-2006 18:22  Europe
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malek
drinks your milkshake!



Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Montréal

so why give unemployment cheques if these ladies are "unemployable".


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Old Post Apr-24-2006 18:36 
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The Greek
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Apr 2001
Location: New York City

I think the reason Holland and Denmark get mixed up here is because Denmark and Dutch both start with "D."


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Old Post Apr-24-2006 21:10  Greece
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TranceAddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > Amsterdam to Muslim women: Drop the burka if you want unemployment benefits
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