One thing I have never been able to understand is the concept of tips. How did this start? How did it become mandatory in some situations?

Take waiters/bartenders for example. Why am I paying them for the job they are supposed to be doing - isn't that the employer's responsibility? I can understand slipping the girl a $20 because she unbuttened a few buttons on her blouse while serving you, or because she let you grab her ass when you got drunk, or because she'll meet you out back when you leave, but how did that evolve into "well, I'm serving you, so you should pay me for it."? No, bitch, you aren't serving me, your company is - they are providing the service of me sitting on my ass while my food is prepared and brought over to me. I'm not going to the restaurant to see *you*; I'm going there to get some good food brought over to me, and I should pay for that, and that only. From there on, it's up the company to decide how much to pay you to keep your ass happy. I go there to eat, not to sit there and figure out competitive wages for you.

Furthermore, I like to see what I will be paying on paper, right in front of me. It makes choosing shit that fits my budget that much easier. If all restaurants/bars just tacked and 15% onto all their prices and didn't make me pay tip, I'd be that much happier. If I buy a $30 steak and a $5 dollar coke, I know that exactly $35 will be leaving my pocket, instead of $25 plus some amount up to me to determine to keep your ass from spitting in my food the next time I go there. I really don't want that responsibility. I just want my food.

I know it's a great scheme on the side of the restaurant because you think you'll be paying less than what you actually be paying. But fuck, when I go to Walmart and buy a $5 picture frame, they don't tack on 10 dollars worth of Walmart-charges that I don't see till I come to the cash register, do they? No, they just make me pay $15.

And on the topic of cashiers, why do coatcheck people have tip jars? Where the hell did that come from? Why not cashiers in clothing stores? Let's compare - coatcheck staff: takes your money, and put your clothes on a hanger; cashier: takes your money, and takes clothes off a hanger, folds them, and puts them in a bag. One expects a tip and one doesn't; what the fuck's the difference?

WHY AM I NOT PAYING THE SALESPERSON'S COMMISSION DIRECTLY WHEN THEY SELL ME SOMETHING IN A BOUTIQUE?

So, please, vote, and try to clear up my confusion. Much appreciated.

P.S. To all the bartenders/wait staff that read this that feel like bitching at me how they hate people like me who don't tip, I'd just like to let you know I DO tip. I have a calculator on my cellphone; it works out. I just don't get why I'm doing it. And if you hate the people that tip, wouldn't you be happier with no tipping and a higher wage too?

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i voted low prices, with tips extra.

simply because i feel those who provide great service deserve a big reward, and those who do not, deserve sweet fuck all.

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quote:

Originally posted by Floorwhore i voted low prices, with tips extra. simply because i feel those who provide great service deserve a big reward, and those who do not, deserve sweet fuck all.

Valid point, but why don't we tip our cashier, our salesperson, our dentist, our lanscaper, our mechanic, our councellor, our civic worker, or our help support? All these people can give you either great or crappy service.

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oh shit.
anyone studying economics?
there's a VERY good explanation on how tips are beneficial to the Economy.

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quote:

Originally posted by Sasha oh shit. anyone studying economics? there's a VERY good explanation on how tips are beneficial to the Economy.

Tax evasion?

Took eco100 and eco200, not one mention of tips.

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quote:

Originally posted by Cosmic Fur Tax evasion? Took eco100 and eco200, not one mention of tips.

no, nothing to do with taxes.
we did it in advanced micro (206) last year... but i dont remember now... no wonder i got a shitty mark lol

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quote:

Originally posted by Cosmic Fur Valid point, but why don't we tip our cashier, our salesperson, our dentist, our lanscaper, our mechanic, our councellor, our civic worker, or our help support? All these people can give you either great or crappy service.

because their jobs are paid out with the understanding that it is their only means of income in relation to their work.

bartenders, waiters, strippers, etc.... they depend on the tips to make their income sufficient.

keep in mind, i do not tip a SINGLE PENNY if i feel the service is not up to par....

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I am not sure why some people get "tips" and some don't. I agree with you when you say it doesn't make a lot of sense.

However, people who work in the catering business, like waiters, bartenders etc. get paid a lower minimum wage than the actual minimum wage itself.

So, without tips, they make about a dollar less an hour than someone making minimum at McDonalds.

The rule actually states something along the lines of "the minimum wage for anyone who serves alcohol is $6.40".

This in my mind seems TOTALLY backwards. A person serving alcohol has a lot more liabilities on their shoulders than someone serving burgers. You also have to be certified, which is a 50-60 dollar course for the Smart Serve, not to mention the cost of the time involved, and then for bartenders, an entire semester worth of time, plus school fees.

If anything, those who are serving alcohol should be paid more for the many inconveniences the job presents. Dealing with inebriated assholes, liability, harassment (always happens), training and time spent to be qualified.

In our society, it is generally accepted that the more school you take, the more training you recieve, the higher you should be paid later. It kind of evens itself out. When it comes to alcohol servers, and normal minimum wage workers, it doesn't correlate.

In other words, if you don't tip, the job isn't worth it.

The "you tip because they get lower wages" argument is a catch-22 argument because wait staff and bartenders get lower wages precisely because people tip.

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quote:

Originally posted by Cosmic Fur The "you tip because they get lower wages" argument is a catch-22 argument because wait staff and bartenders get lower wages precisely because people tip.

which is the way it should be.

wait staff who do their jobs exceptionally, will earn great tips.

those who dont, will not get tips, and likely look for another job.

which will keep the industry filled with those meant to be serving.

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I am a server, just as a starting point... and I think I understand your confusion.

I think the ability to have some control over the wage of the person who is serving you is a good way to ensure you will receive quality service. Think about it this way, who is more likely to serve you well, someone who is being paid a flat rate of $12 an hour, with NO incentive to try harder? OR someone who knows that YOU, the customer, will be making the decision as to how well to reward the service you receive?

Trust me... I like it the way it IS. Because , I'm a pretty good server, and I tend to make pretty good money at it. But even still, it is pretty RARE that you will be tipped even 15%! I find that the average is 10%. Which to my mind isn't really acceptable. In today's day and age EVERYBODY knows that you tip in North America when you go to a restaurant to eat. It's a fact. And until they change the wage, (which incidentally is $6.75 an hour) tipping should stay.

It shouldn't really be confusing though. If you get good service, tip well! Bad service, take it off the tip!

Also, consider the amount of things that can go WRONG for a server that have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with what that person has control over or not... bad food, slow food, watered down drinks, hair in food... difficulty getting a table, errors by bussing people... these are ALL things that have the perception of being bad service, but as a server, I have NO control over them.

I went to Europe last year, where tipping is not traditional, and their service people make a MUCH higher wage to compensate. And actually, I didn't find a lower level of service, so you might be onto something. Maybe tips SHOULD be automatic. It would help people who seem to think that 10% is a good tip!! Buggers.

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quote:

Originally posted by Cosmic Fur One thing I have never been able to understand is the concept of tips. How did this start? How did it become mandatory in some situations? Take waiters/bartenders for example. Why am I paying them for the job they are supposed to be doing - isn't that the employer's responsibility? I can understand slipping the girl a $20 because she unbuttened a few buttons on her blouse while serving you, or because she let you grab her ass when you got drunk, or because she'll meet you out back when you leave, but how did that evolve into "well, I'm serving you, so you should pay me for it."? No, bitch, you aren't serving me, your company is - they are providing the service of me sitting on my ass while my food is prepared and brought over to me. I'm not going to the restaurant to see *you*; I'm going there to get some good food brought over to me, and I should pay for that, and that only. From there on, it's up the company to decide how much to pay you to keep your ass happy. I go there to eat, not to sit there and figure out competitive wages for you. Furthermore, I like to see what I will be paying on paper, right in front of me. It makes choosing shit that fits my budget that much easier. If all restaurants/bars just tacked and 15% onto all their prices and didn't make me pay tip, I'd be that much happier. If I buy a $30 steak and a $5 dollar coke, I know that exactly $35 will be leaving my pocket, instead of $25 plus some amount up to me to determine to keep your ass from spitting in my food the next time I go there. I really don't want that responsibility. I just want my food. I know it's a great scheme on the side of the restaurant because you think you'll be paying less than what you actually be paying. But fuck, when I go to Walmart and buy a $5 picture frame, they don't tack on 10 dollars worth of Walmart-charges that I don't see till I come to the cash register, do they? No, they just make me pay $15. And on the topic of cashiers, why do coatcheck people have tip jars? Where the hell did that come from? Why not cashiers in clothing stores? Let's compare - coatcheck staff: takes your money, and put your clothes on a hanger; cashier: takes your money, and takes clothes off a hanger, folds them, and puts them in a bag. One expects a tip and one doesn't; what the fuck's the difference? WHY AM I NOT PAYING THE SALESPERSON'S COMMISSION DIRECTLY WHEN THEY SELL ME SOMETHING IN A BOUTIQUE? So, please, vote, and try to clear up my confusion. Much appreciated. P.S. To all the bartenders/wait staff that read this that feel like bitching at me how they hate people like me who don't tip, I'd just like to let you know I DO tip. I have a calculator on my cellphone; it works out. I just don't get why I'm doing it. And if you hate the people that tip, wouldn't you be happier with no tipping and a higher wage too?

i dub thee Mr. Pink

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