quote:

Originally posted by josh4 Bush: 750 Constitution: 1 The battle continues.

I'm actually shocked. I figure with his two nominees (1 of which who couldn't vote, but probably would have upheld like he did at the lower circuit and made it 5-4 instead of 5-3), he'd stacked the court well enough. He seems to be getting everything 5-4 these days in his side's favor. No surprise from the 3 in favor of giving him the blank check, though.

___________________
"Go back to bed america your government is in control
Here's American Gladiators, here is 56 channels of it,
Watch these picturary retards bang their fuckin' skulls together and congratulate you on living in the land of freedom,
Here you go America you are free to do as we tell you
We want your soul
Your cash, your house, your phone, your cash, your house, your life" -Adam Freeland - We Want Your Soul

quote:

Originally posted by Groundhog Boy I'm actually shocked. I figure with his two nominees (1 of which who couldn't vote, but probably would have upheld like he did at the lower circuit and made it 5-4 instead of 5-3), he'd stacked the court well enough. He seems to be getting everything 5-4 these days in his side's favor. No surprise from the 3 in favor of giving him the blank check, though.

shocked? about what? stacked the court? even if Rhenquist was still on board it would have still come out the same way. even your bias makes no sense. you got life and bullshit all f**ked up.

this was pretty much a disasterous decision...for the detainees! think about it logically. leave aside your hatred for a second. what exactly did the court say, and what does Bushitler do now with'em?

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo shocked? about what? stacked the court? even if Rhenquist was still on board it would have still come out the same way. even your bias makes no sense. you got life and bullshit all f**ked up. this was pretty much a disasterous decision...for the detainees! think about it logically. leave aside your hatred for a second. what exactly did the court say, and what does Bushitler do now with'em?

First off, I didn't get into it much in the first post, because I haven't had much time to review everything coming out since it just happened today while I am at work, but I'll try to argue based on what I'm aware of now. I don't even understand what was controversial in the orginal post, but whatever.

Stacked the court? Are you even going to deny that in the past year, there has been a huge shift in power on the Supreme Court. Lots of decisions that would have went 5-4 are still going 5-4, but in the other direction. Just look at what's been decided lately. Surely you're more informed than this, or do your conservative blogs not bother to mention how much ass-kicking their "activist judges" are doing now. They're ruling in the opposite direction of what the court 5 years ago would have on a lot of big decisions.

Are you trying to say that what the Bush administration wanted, military tribunals, is what was best for the detainees? I wouldn't go that far, but I do think that it sucks for them that they're now left hanging in limbo for a 2nd time since the Bush administration instists upon violating their rights. For those who are going to be found guilty, why is this worse for them? For those, who once Bush and co. come up with a new, 3rd plan that abides by what the now conservative leaning Supreme Court says is acceptable, may be found innocent, this is a step in the right direction, but unfortunately does drag out their time in Gitmo. I guess the bottom line is, would you rather be processed quickly and unfairly, or drag it out, but do it right?

Also, this "enemy combatant" bullshit is just an insult to both our government and the Geneva convention, as Bush insists all the time "We're at war," but refuses to treat them as POWs, because he'd have to treat them better to abide by Geneva.

___________________
"Go back to bed america your government is in control
Here's American Gladiators, here is 56 channels of it,
Watch these picturary retards bang their fuckin' skulls together and congratulate you on living in the land of freedom,
Here you go America you are free to do as we tell you
We want your soul
Your cash, your house, your phone, your cash, your house, your life" -Adam Freeland - We Want Your Soul

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo shocked? about what? stacked the court? even if Rhenquist was still on board it would have still come out the same way. even your bias makes no sense. you got life and bullshit all f**ked up.

Oh, and one more thing. You do realize that Roberts replaced Rehnquist as CJ and that Roberts wasn't allowed to vote on this because he'd already ruled at the Appellate level? Had Roberts voted, the same as he did before, it would have been 5-4, so yes, it still would have come out the same way.

When I say stacked, I mean O'Connor -> Alito. Rehnquist was already a conservative on the court, replacing him with Roberts didn't do that much. O'Connor at least was a moderate, who was replaced with another conservative. I wouldn't be surprised if she was still on and Alito wasn't in the picture, that it'd have been 6-2 rather than 5-3, so the end result would be the same.

Personally, I fear what happens if Stevens, who I consider to be a moderate, dies before 2008.

___________________
"Go back to bed america your government is in control
Here's American Gladiators, here is 56 channels of it,
Watch these picturary retards bang their fuckin' skulls together and congratulate you on living in the land of freedom,
Here you go America you are free to do as we tell you
We want your soul
Your cash, your house, your phone, your cash, your house, your life" -Adam Freeland - We Want Your Soul

quote:

Originally posted by Groundhog Boy Oh, and one more thing. You do realize that Roberts replaced Rehnquist as CJ and that Roberts wasn't allowed to vote on this because he'd already ruled at the Appellate level? Had Roberts voted, the same as he did before, it would have been 5-4, so yes, it still would have come out the same way.

and what i said is that O'conner and Rhenquist, if they had decided, would have prolly ruled the same. so your right. i'm right.

quote:

When I say stacked, I mean O'Connor -> Alito. Rehnquist was already a conservative on the court, replacing him with Roberts didn't do that much. O'Connor at least was a moderate, who was replaced with another conservative. I wouldn't be surprised if she was still on and Alito wasn't in the picture, that it'd have been 6-2 rather than 5-3, so the end result would be the same.

O'conner became a moderate. she was appointed a conservative. this is what usually happens. but you're still filled with hate.

quote:

Personally, I fear what happens if Stevens, who I consider to be a moderate, dies before 2008.

why fear? the Donks will obstruct till the next administration and you can live free of any fear and loathing because everything will be peaches and cream.

quote:

Originally posted by Groundhog Boy I don't even understand what was controversial in the orginal post, but whatever.

Bushitler puts two of the finest jurors in the country on the SCOTUS and you spout propaganda from the feverswamp about "stacking" the court...thats whatever, whatever.

quote:

Are you even going to deny that in the past year, there has been a huge shift in power on the Supreme Court.

yes and no. what decisions do you take issue with?

quote:

Are you trying to say that what the Bush administration wanted, military tribunals, is what was best for the detainees?

yes. as apposed to what, in your opinion?

quote:

I wouldn't go that far, but I do think that it sucks for them that they're now left hanging in limbo for a 2nd time since the Bush administration instists upon violating their rights. For those who are going to be found guilty, why is this worse for them? For those, who once Bush and co. come up with a new, 3rd plan that abides by what the now conservative leaning Supreme Court says is acceptable, may be found innocent, this is a step in the right direction, but unfortunately does drag out their time in Gitmo. I guess the bottom line is, would you rather be processed quickly and unfairly, or drag it out, but do it right?

so what you're saying (and i'm sorry to keep doing this to you) , by this decision, is that the "liberal" judges have got it wrong in the larger scope of this beyond just Hamden, right?

quote:

Also, this "enemy combatant" bullshit is just an insult to both our government and the Geneva convention, as Bush insists all the time "We're at war," but refuses to treat them as POWs, because he'd have to treat them better to abide by Geneva.

thats because you think this is just Bushitler's war, and nothing else.

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo and what i said is that O'conner and Rhenquist, if they had decided, would have prolly ruled the same. so your right. i'm right. O'conner became a moderate. she was appointed a conservative. this is what usually happens. but you're still filled with hate. why fear? the Donks will obstruct till the next administration and you can live free of any fear and loathing because everything will be peaches and cream.

No, I was saying that it would be 6-2, because O'Connor would have voted in the majority, and Alito voted in the minority on this one. I was surprised because one of your normal guys didn't side with you this time, because even he viewed Bush as going too far this time. I think it's great when people actually think for themselves instead of falling into line because you're supposed to. That doesn't happpen often enough, thus the shock. I expected it to lock 4-4 and Roberts be the tie-breaker, approving.

I know O'Connor was a conservative turned moderate. Hopefully the same happens to you with age. BTW, not sure if I've mentioned before, but I was a Republican at 18. It was primarily the Republican's current insistence upon imposing it's "moral values" and taking us to this war that should have been handled when we actually had cause, not lies, that caused the change. I own guns, violent video games, like money and big business (with some responsibility, there's a point where enough is enough and causing the genereal public harm can't be accepted), etc.

I'm glad how much you realize who's taking this next congressional election since your boys have been fucking up so bad.

Lastly, Bushitler

___________________
"Go back to bed america your government is in control
Here's American Gladiators, here is 56 channels of it,
Watch these picturary retards bang their fuckin' skulls together and congratulate you on living in the land of freedom,
Here you go America you are free to do as we tell you
We want your soul
Your cash, your house, your phone, your cash, your house, your life" -Adam Freeland - We Want Your Soul

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo Bushitler puts two of the finest jurors in the country on the SCOTUS and you spout propaganda from the feverswamp about "stacking" the court...thats whatever, whatever. yes and no. what decisions do you take issue with? yes. as apposed to what, in your opinion? so what you're saying (and i'm sorry to keep doing this to you) , by this decision, is that the "liberal" judges have got it wrong in the larger scope of this beyond just Hamden, right? thats because you think this is just Bushitler's war, and nothing else.

Jurors , Jurists, maybe. And, yes, it was whatever, because it was a stupid comment. I don't think anyone'll deny that he's stacked the court. Fortunately, eventually, half of your Republican posts break rank lately because you guys are going too far. I mean, 7 of 9 are Republican appointed, 4 by the Bushes.

Skipped. Do your own research and read the news, you know I'm right.

Opposed. How many words have you misspelled in your jabs at me today. Didn't realize I was your new target. It's OK, I prefer reaction to unnecessary pre-emption anyhow.

It is a war, right?? Why aren't they prisoners of our "War on Terror?" Follow the fucking Geneva Convention, that we signed back when Bush wasn't the President, and I have no problem.

___________________
"Go back to bed america your government is in control
Here's American Gladiators, here is 56 channels of it,
Watch these picturary retards bang their fuckin' skulls together and congratulate you on living in the land of freedom,
Here you go America you are free to do as we tell you
We want your soul
Your cash, your house, your phone, your cash, your house, your life" -Adam Freeland - We Want Your Soul

Bascially it just means they won't be tried via Bush's way.
That doesn't mean they're going to be let go or freed.
They're still going to get their day in court; just in a different manner.

It's a win for the libs in the sense that the Islamofascists, who don't believe or recognize modern justice, now have more rights than those that perished in 9/11.

I understand the ruling and it does make sense; it was a slip of beaucracy on Bush's part and for that, a longer wait for everyone...

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r It's a win for the libs in the sense that the Islamofascists, who don't believe or recognize modern justice, now have more rights than those that perished in 9/11.

Oh yeah, they had the RIGHT to be tortured, humiliated, and dehumanized. Even though mojority of them are completely innocent. Lay off the crack dude.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r Bascially it just means they won't be tried via Bush's way. That doesn't mean they're going to be let go or freed. They're still going to get their day in court; just in a different manner. It's a win for the libs in the sense that the Islamofascists, who don't believe or recognize modern justice, now have more rights than those that perished in 9/11. I understand the ruling and it does make sense; it was a slip of beaucracy on Bush's part and for that, a longer wait for everyone...

I completely agree, I'm not pissed that they're not being let go in either route. I'd just rather see justice performed in a manner which abides by the laws of our country and by rules that conform to the treaties we've signed.

I'm not a fan of stooping to others' levels and ignoring principles. Criminals always disobey the laws, does that mean the police system can do the same, or do we have some rules and standards? We have enough ability to prevent this sort of thing from happening, abiding by our own laws and principles. I hardly side with these cowardly fucks that attacked us. I just believe in trying criminals as criminals, and that's not what's happening with the current course of action.

Like I said before, I'd rather a longer wait to apply proper justice than letting unlawful actions take place. I'll be happy when a properly balanced stack of a couple of conservatives, a couple of liberals, and a couple moderates get thrown up there and we get things decided on a fair basis, rather than down party lines (with the occasional Republican defector.

___________________
"Go back to bed america your government is in control
Here's American Gladiators, here is 56 channels of it,
Watch these picturary retards bang their fuckin' skulls together and congratulate you on living in the land of freedom,
Here you go America you are free to do as we tell you
We want your soul
Your cash, your house, your phone, your cash, your house, your life" -Adam Freeland - We Want Your Soul