I'm trying my hand at using Sonar's V-Vocal to create some vocals for my music and while at it I thought I'd try a bit harder on mixing using just the audio tracks rather than using the soft synths straight. . So on this track I've got a bunch of samples and run them through to see if I can make them fit. I took the frozen audio from a Project 5 project and dragged them into sonar to have a go at "audio" only mixing using just E.Q, Compression and levels.

So here's the result so far, still working on it, look for "Do you love me ? " at :

http://www.soundclick.com/pro/view/...0&content=music

I'd love to know what you think, particularly on the mix and the vocals, but anything else either....

Ta Andy

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Just a wee note to say I've updated this a little since first uploading. It didn't help that the first mix was in mono by mistake !

Andy

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Sorry, but that was horrible.

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I think it´s interesting! Maybe it´s to mutch in it, make it sounds a bit mess. But I like the vocal! Keep it up!


Takere!

Akia

quote:

Originally posted by Corteoz Sorry, but that was horrible.

Ok!

Can you tell me what you found so horrible ? I'll not learn to do better otherwise !

Ta

Andy

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My apologies for not giving you constructive criticism, but I felt that there was too much to comment.

I’ll give you a brief explanation of what I personally think is bad about this track.

1. It is not trance. At best it’s psy-trance, but it sounds more like something experimental.
2. Timing sounds wrong on the bass/acid lead.
3. Harmonies are all wrong. Vocal doesn’t fit at all.
4. It sounds like it’s made with pre made loops.
5. Bass at 1:00 makes the track sounds muddy.
6. Breakdown sounds improvised, and the timing is all wrong again. Not to mention the bad harmonies.
7. Why does it build down after the breakdown?
8. Around 3:00 you mix in some ambient loops or something. It does not fit in.
9. You have to different harmonies running on top of each other after 8.
10. Overall sound is really muddy.

There’s not structure or theme in the song. It sounds like you have got a bunch of loops and decided to use them all.
If you don’t use a good sequencer, I recommend you get one fast.
I saw something about Project 5. That’s a starter sequencer.
Try out FL Studio, Reason or Ableton Live.
Don’t use loops with melodies. Loops are O.K. for percussion and some ambient sounds, NOT for melodies.

Try reading about music production. Also, try to find out what defines the music style you’re trying to make music in. If you want to produce mainstream trance, listen to Tiësto, Armin van Buren, Paul van Dyke, Ferry Corsten and try to replicate the song structure of their hits. You’ll get an idea of how trance is supposed to be made.

That’s all I have to say for now.
Good luck producing. Skills comes with time.

___________________
- Just be who you are...

KORG KARMA Music Workstation
Roland JP-8000
SONY MDR-7506
ECHO MIA MIDI
STK VX-804FX console mixer
THX Audio ST-90 Studio monitors
It's a real bedroom studio!

quote:

Originally posted by Corteoz My apologies for not giving you constructive criticism, but I felt that there was too much to comment.

No problem I know what you mean...

quote:

Originally posted by Corteoz 1. It is not trance. At best it’s psy-trance, but it sounds more like something experimental.

Sorry I can't help crossin genres, perhaps I'll hit on something new

quote:

Originally posted by Corteoz 2. Timing sounds wrong on the bass/acid lead.

Hmm, I'll look at that, not sure how though the midi is locked solid

quote:

Originally posted by Corteoz 3. Harmonies are all wrong. Vocal doesn’t fit at all.

Ok, thats probably fair, this was the bit I was experimenting with

quote:

Originally posted by Corteoz 4. It sounds like it’s made with pre made loops.

Nope, there is one drum loop that comes in at around 3:00 minutes, all the other stuff (apparently to my shame) is made be me

quote:

Originally posted by Corteoz 5. Bass at 1:00 makes the track sounds muddy.

Mud is something I've been strugglung with for years. I think I've got a major monitoring problem thats making it worse ATM. I am trying to clean it up ....

quote:

Originally posted by Corteoz 6. Breakdown sounds improvised, and the timing is all wrong again. Not to mention the bad harmonies.

Harmonies I'll grant you, but why do you think there are timing problem ?

quote:

Originally posted by Corteoz 7. Why does it build down after the breakdown?

OK, an artistic decision you don't like, fair enough, perhaps more build is needed.

quote:

Originally posted by Corteoz 8. Around 3:00 you mix in some ambient loops or something. It does not fit in.

Nope, just the drum loop.

quote:

Originally posted by Corteoz 9. You have to different harmonies running on top of each other after 8. 10. Overall sound is really muddy.

Both good points I know I need to work on. thanks for the comments so far.

quote:

Originally posted by Corteoz I saw something about Project 5. That’s a starter sequencer. Try out FL Studio, Reason or Ableton Live.

Hmmm, thats my lack of talent, not the software !

quote:

Originally posted by Corteoz Don’t use loops with melodies. Loops are O.K. for percussion and some ambient sounds, NOT for melodies.

So are you saying that perhaps I'm repeating too much in the melody and need more variation ? If so that's perhaps a fair comment.

Again, thanks for the feedback, it really is appreciated even if this reply perhaps xcomes across as a little self defensive !

many thanks
Andy

[/QUOTE]

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Last edited by R2Project on Aug-06-2006 at 21:13

The quality of the drum programming did not match the overall sound quality. I therefore assumed you used a lot of loops. Also the way some of the instruments entered the track made it seem like they were waveform loops slapped into the sequencer. Sorry about that.
What software do you use?

The point with breakdown in trance is to build up energy and then releasing it all directly after the breakdown. After the breakdown you play your main hook, lots of drums/percussion and also introduce some new instrument if possible.
I have my own way of arranging my trance tracks, but it doesn’t break so much from the mainstream arranging that it differ from the genre, like yours’.

I don’t mean to be rude, but I have gotten _really_ picky when it comes to music. I almost hate myself for being so picky. I can’t get my tracks done because I always find something wrong with my sound. I’ll have to go into the thinking box and make sure I realize it’s stupid so I can get some songs done.
Just hang in there and remember to read about music production. Try recreating a professionally made track from scratch. Take your time.

___________________
- Just be who you are...

KORG KARMA Music Workstation
Roland JP-8000
SONY MDR-7506
ECHO MIA MIDI
STK VX-804FX console mixer
THX Audio ST-90 Studio monitors
It's a real bedroom studio!

quote:

Originally posted by Corteoz The quality of the drum programming did not match the overall sound quality. I therefore assumed you used a lot of loops. Also the way some of the instruments entered the track made it seem like they were waveform loops slapped into the sequencer. Sorry about that. What software do you use?

In this instance it was created in Project 5 using a wide array of softsynths which where bounced down to audio tracks (not loops). These where then dragged in to Sonar 5 (which could have caused the "waveform loops slapped" perhaps, wonder how to fix that ?) for final mixdown. Looking at the waveform I think I've rather overcooked it !

quote:

Originally posted by Corteoz Just hang in there and remember to read about music production. Try recreating a professionally made track from scratch. Take your time.

I'm trying, I'm trying ! One day perhaps.

Andy

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Try using another sequencer.

FL Studio
Reason
Cubase (advanced)
Ableton Live

Try out the demo versions.
The software you're currently using offers limitations.

___________________
- Just be who you are...

KORG KARMA Music Workstation
Roland JP-8000
SONY MDR-7506
ECHO MIA MIDI
STK VX-804FX console mixer
THX Audio ST-90 Studio monitors
It's a real bedroom studio!

quote:

Originally posted by Corteoz Try using another sequencer. FL Studio Reason Cubase (advanced) Ableton Live Try out the demo versions. The software you're currently using offers limitations.

Sorry I really don't want to get into a sequencer war here, but what limitations ?

Andy

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It's a starter sequencer. If you're comfortable with the UI and the work flow, I suggest trying out Cubase. It's very similar.

The limitation with Project 5 is that it lacks many of the advanced features you'll find in other sequencers. I'm not saying Project 5 is a bad choice, but if you want to produce at a higher level you need to upgrade or get very creative.

I don't know how much you make from scratch, but using pre made melodies and patterns is not good.
How old are you really? I don't know how much age has to do with producing, but you learn things all the time.
I believe that a intermediate sequencer will allow you to gain production skills faster. FL Studio has a lot of tutorials available. Many of them features production-techniques.

Try finding someone at your own level and team up. That's what I did and it helped me a lot.

___________________
- Just be who you are...

KORG KARMA Music Workstation
Roland JP-8000
SONY MDR-7506
ECHO MIA MIDI
STK VX-804FX console mixer
THX Audio ST-90 Studio monitors
It's a real bedroom studio!