in all reality? the Feminist are afraid. i'm being dead serious.

they are literally scared for their lives to defend against Islam.

this topic has so much to reveal about not just feminism but many aspects of liberalism as well.

99% of feminism has always been concerned with white, middle class women living in western democracies.

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quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN 99% of feminism has always been concerned with white, middle class women living in western democracies.

And these femenists have improved gender equality in their own respective societies greatly, but i do not think this entails that they are solely responsible for womens rights throughout the world. The majority of us (women and men who are fortunate enough to have been born in first world countries) can only help these developing nations into accepting gender equality by aiding their governments with incentives for abolishing mysognistic laws and also funding / charity work for the most poverty stricken (programs like Microedit have improved the living standards for women in some third world countries amazingly well) Western women leading by example through mediums like art, literature, sporting achievements, and politics would also have a great impact (as much as i hate her - Condi Rice must have been a wake up call for many women in the middle east, and i can barely imagine what would happen if Hilary were to be elected )

If we enforce our way of life onto these cultures any more than the above then they will perceive us as trying to imperialistically impose our values onto them; when this happens the men and women from these cultures will defend their traditions adamantly. True change must come from within not from without, and the true heroins of contemporary femenism are great women like Anousheh Ansari and Irene Khan whom both were born in Islamic states and against all odds proved that they are more capable than 99.99% of all the men on the planet.


hey Firestarter (or anyone else interested) i reckon you would love these movies:

Osama is the story of a young afghani girl who's mother and grandmother is a widow, to survive the family disguises her as a boy because women cannot go outside when they're not accompanied by an adult. extremely powerful and moving, it was hte first movie to come out of Afghanistan after the fall of the Taliban, and the director is incredibly talented, the cinemetography.... 5/5stars

The Circle follows four Iranian women and tells their stories in a brutally honest and moving way 4.5/5stars

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN 99% of feminism has always been concerned with white, middle class women living in western democracies.

That's very similar to a comment Carlin made in one of his stand-up comedy shows, and it's very true.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

Yeah, and the goverments/states/entities in question who enforce these standards are the ones funded and supported by the US (Saudia Arabia, Wahabism, Taliban). The extremely oppressive and fanatical strains of Sharia emerged from these groups and their twisted ideological perspective, which by now have overshadowed and replaced traditional Sharia. Thanks again to the Western powers.

Are you aware that the Prophet's first wife, Khadija al-Kubra, was one of the most prominent and successful buisiness women in Mecca at the time? Quite cotradictory to the widely prevelant ignorant and distorted western views of Islam.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Yeah, and the goverments/states/entities in question who enforce these standards are the ones funded and supported by the US (Saudia Arabia, Wahabism, Taliban). The extremely oppressive and fanatical strains of Sharia emerged from these groups and their twisted ideological perspective, which by now have overshadowed and replaced traditional Sharia. Thanks again to the Western powers. Are you aware that the Prophet's first wife, Khadija al-Kubra, was one of the most prominent and successful buisiness women in Mecca at the time? Quite cotradictory to the widely prevelant ignorant and distorted western views of Islam.

yeap, Mohammed was more effective at increasing rights for slaves and women while he was alive than Jesus was during his lifetime (who's ideas only came into effect once they were adopted by the Roman Empire hundreds of years after his death)

Jake well said

quote:

If ever there was a time for feminists to take up their cause, wouldn't it be now???

All the things you have mentioned have been going on for many years now.

Its tragic and very sad, especially when 1st World powerful countries sit back when inhumane atrocities occur around the world.

If I had the power to, I would make sure I eradicate all the terrible things that are subjected to improvished women, etc. However, its not all that easy. Many women who have tried to help in cases like the ones you mentioned have also gotten themselves into trouble, and perhaps even been killed themselves. In many of these countries it is their custom to stone women (eg: if they are caught not wearing their hajib), or perfom genital mutilation on women.

Also why do you mention that feminists just take up their cause?
THE WHOLE WORLD should be taking up this cause, both male & female.

People need to be made aware of the situation, Im sure so many people have no idea what really goes on in these countries.

And yet the sad part is that so many people that do, dont do anything about it, especially those in power!

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Yeah, and the goverments/states/entities in question who enforce these standards are the ones funded and supported by the US (Saudia Arabia, Wahabism, Taliban). The extremely oppressive and fanatical strains of Sharia emerged from these groups and their twisted ideological perspective, which by now have overshadowed and replaced traditional Sharia. Thanks again to the Western powers.

Correct.
What has too be made clear is that there is a difference between Cultural laws, Sharia law and Islamic scriptures. I'm not a student of the Koran and have no interest in becoming one but I do have some friends who are islamic and it has been explained too me at length that all the things like stonings, dress, arranged marrige and divorce are quite open too liberal translation in the Koran, which fit in with any western society you'd probably care too name with the same rights and liberties anyone else has.
The things that Fir3start3r pointed out are cultural interpretations of the Koran which have their basis in the society that the mufti's practice in.
Those societies have their own cultural preferances in regards too peoples behaviour, for what its worth I dont think they are something which can be changed easily. After if someone came into your cultural environment and decided that the law should regulate how you dress and behave, regardless of what generations of your parents may have done wouldnt be taken well would it.
While I dont like how women are treated in those countries and resent it being pressed on anyone else's cultural values outside those countries what exactly can you do?

quote:

Originally posted by tathi yeap, Mohammed was more effective at increasing rights for slaves and women while he was alive than Jesus was during his lifetime (who's ideas only came into effect once they were adopted by the Roman Empire hundreds of years after his death)

whoa! do you believe for one second that Mohammed would have been nearly as successful at what you say if he had lived under the Roman occupation Jesus lived under? c'mon! lets be sensible here.

EDIT: This was a response to MiSSyM post and not Q5.

^^^ Because going around imposing your values on people who don't share them makes you a fascist. Just because you believe yours to be superior ones that ought to be universally accepted by everyone is no different from religious fundamentalists like the Taliban.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Thanks again to the Western powers.

thats such a horrible and shortsided way to rationalize what has happened to Islam.

like telling a woman who has breast cancer that she should have never examined herself.