human nature doesn't change much does it?

some people have to be literally slapped around first before they recognize a threat as a threat.

meanwhile Abbas just stated publicly that "Hamas will NEVER recognize Israel" and that "Hamas will continue it's jihad to recapture Jeruselem". animals.

Tony Blair is, sad to say it really but one of the most disappointing politicians around. He started off with a bang and was quite well spoken, intelligent and dare I say it, even competent. But somewhere along the line and I'm not really up to date being a bit of an ex-pat who hasnt lived there for... oh 14years, I'm not sure where he fell off the rails.
But I do suspect its when he started listening to that dopey US sock puppet currently in office and maybe thats where the rot set in.
Infectious stupidity

Not quite sure about Britain being 'tolerant' either, it really depends where you are and how white you are in some places. Some of the more backwater towns and cities tend to dislike people who are obviously immigrants (ie: me) and it's reached points of severe social disturbance at times. A lot of the indians, asians and other europeans seem to click in alright but the pakistani communities tended to always end up looking bewildered, under seige and not quite sure what to do with themselves or very happy where they ended up.
And to be fair outside pressures from bigots, chavs, skins and nationalists tended to make them very close knit as well just for their own survival.

quote:

Originally posted by Lilith Tony Blair is, sad to say it really but one of the most disappointing politicians around. He started off with a bang and was quite well spoken, intelligent and dare I say it, even competent. But somewhere along the line and I'm not really up to date being a bit of an ex-pat who hasnt lived there for... oh 14years, I'm not sure where he fell off the rails. But I do suspect its when he started listening to that dopey US sock puppet currently in office and maybe thats where the rot set in. Infectious stupidity

so you remember an eminently successful and admittedly brilliant middle aged man when you were 14, and ten years later he's changed all of a sudden and become a dope? and you attribute it (blow it off more like it) to him listening to an ignorant yank that wheres a cowboy hat?

There was nothing ever good of Mr. Blair. He was corrupt to even begin with, and his loyalty was never to the English people. He is nothing more than Bush's best friend because the both are members of the same secret society.

The western lifestly is an inferior one that encourages nothing but the accumulation of wealth by all means necessary. And than when you have made it you are taxed and that money goes to the inferior people who are too lazy to work; and any social welfare will only make them work less.

What a concept...

I say he's right, the way he said it is a bit random and rash but he is right.

If muslims wanna move to Britain then they should conform to British society, yes Britain is a free society but it is ITS OWN DISTINCT FREE SOCIETY, and we all know that "free" isnt 100% free there are limitations. IE: Actual laws/Taboos/Norms etc, its a matter of respect and a matter of GRATITUDE in my mind, you left your shithole of a country to go to paradise that is Britain, the least you can do is conform a bit.

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quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo meanwhile Abbas just stated publicly that "Hamas will NEVER recognize Israel" and that "Hamas will continue it's jihad to recapture Jeruselem". animals.

I'm not touching on whether you're right or wrong, but I was just wondering if you recognized that you utilize dehumanization in your methods of processing and filtering the information you receive about people you've been told are your "enemies".

IE: calling them animals, as if we don't display the exact same traits, just in different mediums.

Similar to how the "ancient" Romans justified the slaughter of foreigners who were not yet Romanized by equating them to Barbarians, yet us living today can look back at many old Roman traditions and rituals that we could comparatively consider barbaric.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Shibby I'm not touching on whether you're right or wrong, but I was just wondering if you recognized that you utilize dehumanization in your methods of processing and filtering the information you receive about people you've been told are your "enemies". IE: calling them animals, as if we don't display the exact same traits, just in different mediums. Similar to how the "ancient" Romans justified the slaughter of foreigners who were not yet Romanized by equating them to Barbarians, yet us living today can look back at many old Roman traditions and rituals that we could comparatively consider barbaric.

I certainly hope this isn't a justification for those that Blair is pointing out.

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo and you attribute it (blow it off more like it) to him listening to an ignorant yank that wheres a cowboy hat?

Oh I was taking the piss for goodness sakes, hence the 'haha' at the end of it all.

You have to admit though, the war in Iraq effectively riled up a hornets nest of old hatreds just that bit more to the point where people locally where blowing up buses with backpacks of explosive. Not people from outside the country but young men from ordinary suburbs, but thats not the first time it's happened to England either. I also remember well enough when the IRA was in full swing and prone to do the same things on a fairly regular basis, however, they tended to phone in to keep the civilian casualties down, sometimes.
These guys won't, theyre just out there to kill as many ordinary people as they can because they hate and feel sufficiently upset enough that it's worth doing to the society that they live in.

quote:

There was nothing ever good of Mr. Blair. He was corrupt to even begin with, and his loyalty was never to the English people. He is nothing more than Bush's best friend because the both are members of the same secret society.

Cite any sources for this secret society?

quote:

The western lifestly is an inferior one that encourages nothing but the accumulation of wealth by all means necessary.

I don't know about that, personally I've not lately had to steal anything or hurt anyone in the process of making a decent living for myself.

quote:

And than when you have made it you are taxed and that money goes to the inferior people who are too lazy to work; and any social welfare will only make them work less.

Well yes and no, I'm not fan of contributing to a welfare state for anyone but a lot of those taxes also end up providing emergency services, civil law enforcement, defence and utilities which everyone uses on a daily basis.
Of course, governments being governments they arent necessarily 'good' at spending that money like a corporation, they do waste a lot and get diverted in the interests of state which are dubious at best. Heck if I was employing the average minister in a company he'd have a menial, non-financial role in it in administration. Otherwise you may as well also be taking religious and life counciling from a reformed drug addict thats woken up and found god one morning (lol ), theyre both about as reliable and my expectations of their progress and process are low to awful.

quote:

Actual laws/Taboos/Norms etc, its a matter of respect and a matter of GRATITUDE in my mind, you left your shithole of a country to go to paradise that is Britain, the least you can do is conform a bit.

Laws, respect and civilised behaviour aren't exactly a unique concept just to Britain, people know theyre not supposed to kill, injure and harass their fellow human beings. Deviations from that do tend to be labelled as being antisocial as well in other countries, if its a commonplace thing in a group of people then maybe its time to consider just how well recieved and educated they are on a countries customs prior to them coming into the country and gaining citizenship there and how well we educate ourselves about the people coming in with extensive background checks to keep the serious problems out.
I think if you where looking at the larger picture of immigration to the UK, you'll probably find most people do 'conform a bit' and don't cause any harm to anyone or offend anyones sensibilities with their dress, native language while theyre learning english and any other little customs they may have along with their religion.
By the same standard of conformity it might also be time to apply it to local residents there as well so theres no double standards being applied. For example lots of chav kids running around, wearing clothes from another culture (the US mostly) stealing cars, taking and dealing drugs, assaults and other crap they get up to without any apparent sterotypical villification for doing so.
Otherwise you may as well just be looking at the problem of conformity with 'tinted' glasses.

Many people are interpreting this speech to mean that its the Muslims that must make all the efforts. What Blair said, mainly, "democracy, the rule of law, tolerance, equal treatment for all" carries the same weight for everyone. You can't expect anyone to conform to an intolerant society that rejects them. Asking someone to assimilate into the culture is one thing, but telling them to forget everything that makes them who they are and become something else is another. This level of tolerance works both ways.

quote:

Originally posted by josh4 Many people are interpreting this speech to mean that its the Muslims that must make all the efforts. What Blair said, mainly, "democracy, the rule of law, tolerance, equal treatment for all" carries the same weight for everyone. You can't expect anyone to conform to an intolerant society that rejects them. Asking someone to assimilate into the culture is one thing, but telling them to forget everything that makes them who they are and become something else is another. This level of tolerance works both ways.

That may be true, but it's the ones that want to bring their country with them and expect the host country to comply simply because they think they should that are the problem.

No one's mentioned anything about giving up their culture however, respecting your new country by abiding by a few laws isn't much to ask either.

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."