Why do you think we're in the Middle East? Building forward military bases to gear up for the upcoming confrontation with Russia and China. Derrrr!

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Antimissle bases can't exactly threaten anyone...

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Originally posted by Sunsnail Antimissle bases can't exactly threaten anyone...

They can threaten the missiles

I think that the US needs to stop swingin' it's dick all over the place and militarizing other nations for use down the road in potential confilcts.

All this effort to guard American interests in Europe, and the border with Mexico still leaks like a sieve. To add insult to injury, two border guards get jailed for shooting a drug deal, who cuts a deal and gets off free. Something doesn't seem right with that one lol

NATO was created as a counter-balance treaty to Warsaw Pact to fight communist expansion. In 1991, Soviet Union collapsed, Warsaw Pact became history. But NATO continues to expand to this day. NATO is a military alliance. Why are they expanding? The Cold War is over. Russians are now friends with the West. Ever since 1991 NATO has been expanding in Eastern Europe, Central Asia, building bases, supplying missiles and long-range aircraft, anti-aircraft, anti-missile weapons. And for what? Does NATO seriously think Russia is taking over again, SOON?

At the same time, Russian government and military has viewed the NATO expansion to its borders as an act of aggression from the West, which they are rightfully claiming. NATO claims to be cooperating with Russia - yet its Russia who is retreating from Soviet bloc states and NATO expanding. WHat kind of co-operation is that?

NATO is aggressively aimed at Russia and might in the end, when considering Russia a threat, launch a pre-emptive strike against its strategic bases. So much for the buffer zone.

All arguments that NATO's massive missile defense and aircraft base being built right now on territory of Poland to defend against possible Iranian aggression is dumb and doesnt make sense. Why would Iran want to launch LONG-RANGE missiles (which it doesnt have) at Poland?

In conclusion, this NATO is an anti-Russian campaign, designed to push out Russian influence in countries around it and to isolate Russia from its neighbours.

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Originally posted by Magnetonium In conclusion, this NATO is an anti-Russian campaign, designed to push out Russian influence in countries around it and to isolate Russia from its neighbours.

Look, not even Russia's neighbors like Russia. No country wants to be close to Russia. And I wouldn't blame them. Nothing good can come from being a so called friend of Russia. Look what they do, they cut gas to ukraine in the middle of winter! And there are countless acts of bad behaviour coming from Russia. If NATO can isolate the Russian government than good. It will hopefully teach the Russian government to change its behaviour.

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Originally posted by metalgearsolid It will hopefully teach the Russian government to change its behaviour.

Or it will antagonize them further.

I'm not a fan of Russia, and I think Putin is one shady ******. Shutting off heating oil in the winter is just nasty.

Somehow I don't think that an escalation of defenses/weapons/bases etc will do much to change Putins mind and make him sit up and think: "Oh shit, maybe I should back down, that's some badass shit they've got over there"

Arms races only escalate.

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Originally posted by metalgearsolid Look, not even Russia's neighbors like Russia. No country wants to be close to Russia. And I wouldn't blame them. Nothing good can come from being a so called friend of Russia. Look what they do, they cut gas to ukraine in the middle of winter! And there are countless acts of bad behaviour coming from Russia. If NATO can isolate the Russian government than good. It will hopefully teach the Russian government to change its behaviour.

aND this comes from Mr. Russophob. First of all, the contract between Russia and Ukraine, just like this year with Belarus, the contract expires on January 1st, depending on the years of contract. Russia had to shut off gas because Ukraine refused to accept new Russian price. And we dont give free electricity, buddy. Market price is quite fair. Russia figured since its neighbours have developed anti-Russian tendencies, and these for most part are living off on bilions of dollars in Russian investments, subsidies and C.I.S. obligations. So Russia decided to no longer be the "free & cheap" source, no longer a nice neighbour these regimes can take advantage of. Fair and square. You pay the price of new contract, or if you refuse, we no longer pump the gas.

And if these countries hate Russia so much and want to be isolated from it, might as well cut off their bloodline - much of former Soviet republics' economy, oil/gas (except Kazakhstan/Turkmenistan/Azerbaijan), even infrastructure depends on Russia. Yeah, they keep whining on how Russia is evil yet they want the cheaper piece of the pie. Russia has its own people to feed. Enough listening to bullshit. Equal market terms to everyone. No more favouritsm. People like you whine about isloating Russia, while at the same times you want her resources. Face it - you cant isolate Russia. Either way she will become a big plaayer again, because of massive natural resources. Dont be ignorant about it because thats how its going to develop and it can be seen in the Russian-E.U. economic and energy partnership. So shove it ;-)

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Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium aND this comes from Mr. Russophob. First of all, the contract between Russia and Ukraine, just like this year with Belarus, the contract expires on January 1st, depending on the years of contract. Russia had to shut off gas because Ukraine refused to accept new Russian price. And we dont give free electricity, buddy. Market price is quite fair. Russia figured since its neighbours have developed anti-Russian tendencies, and these for most part are living off on bilions of dollars in Russian investments, subsidies and C.I.S. obligations. So Russia decided to no longer be the "free & cheap" source, no longer a nice neighbour these regimes can take advantage of. Fair and square. You pay the price of new contract, or if you refuse, we no longer pump the gas.

What a civilized country would have done is threaten to shut off the gas. And continue to negotiate until winter was over. You know how cold it was in Ukraine? People could have died just because Russian government are a bunch of assholes who don't care about ANY human life. Also, the time Ukraine went without paying the fair price, ukrain would have to not only the pay the amount of gas they used during the winter months but also a fine for not listening.

quote:

And if these countries hate Russia so much and want to be isolated from it, might as well cut off their bloodline - much of former Soviet republics' economy, oil/gas (except Kazakhstan/Turkmenistan/Azerbaijan), even infrastructure depends on Russia. Yeah, they keep whining on how Russia is evil yet they want the cheaper piece of the pie. Russia has its own people to feed. Enough listening to bullshit. Equal market terms to everyone. No more favouritsm. People like you whine about isloating Russia, while at the same times you want her resources. Face it - you cant isolate Russia. Either way she will become a big plaayer again, because of massive natural resources. Dont be ignorant about it because thats how its going to develop and it can be seen in the Russian-E.U. economic and energy partnership. So shove it ;-)

We don't need Russia. In less than 50yrs Russia will be a muslim nation. That is when we come in and invade Western Russia and the Chinese take over Siberia and the far east. There won't be a Russia in the 22nd century!

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Or it will antagonize them further. I'm not a fan of Russia, and I think Putin is one shady ******. Shutting off heating oil in the winter is just nasty. Somehow I don't think that an escalation of defenses/weapons/bases etc will do much to change Putins mind and make him sit up and think: "Oh shit, maybe I should back down, that's some badass shit they've got over there" Arms races only escalate.

Russia can't do an another arms race. They don't have enough food to feed their people and their people are not reproducing so their population is falling. In another century we will deal with a new Russia. One where the minorities use to be oppressed by the Russians. These new people will be easier to deal with than the now ethnic Russians who are too brainwashed.

quote:

Originally posted by metalgearsolid What a civilized country would have done is threaten to shut off the gas. And continue to negotiate until winter was over. You know how cold it was in Ukraine? People could have died just because Russian government are a bunch of assholes who don't care about ANY human life. Also, the time Ukraine went without paying the fair price, ukrain would have to not only the pay the amount of gas they used during the winter months but also a fine for not listening.

If you are doing a business and your customer refuses to extend the contract at the new price - do you continue giving him services until maybe later he decides to pay? Most people choose not to pay until they have no choice but to do so when electricity is shut off. In Canada there are a lot of people who havent paid their electricity bills. I bet they'll pay up once its cut off.

Contract is a contract. You fail to abide by it, then there's no excuses. So Ukraine thinks Russia is unfair - well, let them get their gas from elsewhere, noone is stopping them. Only your pity ignorance.

And stop shoving the Soviet-era dictatorship into the new Russia, its lame and doesnt address the point.

And by the way, in the end Russia still gave a deal to Ukraine, which pays below the market price. Happy?

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We don't need Russia. In less than 50yrs Russia will be a muslim nation. That is when we come in and invade Western Russia and the Chinese take over Siberia and the far east. There won't be a Russia in the 22nd century!

In 50 years? Where do you get this information from, out of your ass? Russia is 145 million people strong. Only 20 million Muslims. Impossible! Get a new calculator!!!

China wont touch Russia, they're allies. Russia has enough nukes as it is to kick anyone's ass. So dont get too cocky.
Germans, Poles, Sweden, Napoleon, Turks, Mongols tried to take over Russia. They all failed. We are very powerful people. Dont f-ck with us. As far as I am concerned, Russia has been around for much longer than even England or USA. They have existed as an independent nation for many centuries, and its unlikely to change unless you use some out-of-the-ass statistics and probabilities like you are doing.

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Russia can't do an another arms race. They don't have enough food to feed their people and their people are not reproducing so their population is falling. In another century we will deal with a new Russia. One where the minorities use to be oppressed by the Russians. These new people will be easier to deal with than the now ethnic Russians who are too brainwashed.

As we speak, Russia is upgrading its military. There's lots of arable land in Russia, many farms. The era of collectivization is over. AND, Russia has about 5 percent of the world's arable land (cant find the linky at the moment), most of it not in use, and while the rest of the world depletes their soil ...
As for Russia's internal problems, every country has them. And that has nothing to do with this thread. Your country has big problems too. This thread is about NATO. And the point is, they are the agressor.

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Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

^you see how brainwashed you are? How the hell did Putin manage to brainwash a Russian in Canada? Stop listening to state owned media, whose owners just happen to be good friends with Putin.

This is why arguing with a Russian is pointless. You are soo brainwashed it is just silly to even try.

quote:

Originally posted by metalgearsolid They don't have enough food to feed their people ....

At least try to think before typing, you are making a lot of dumb statements there. See

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Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture