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Originally posted by Cyrus King i listen to trance becuase it is beautifully composed like a classical piece of music.... but with beats in it...

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Originally posted by Magnetonium I hardly if ever acknowledge sarcasm from a person I dont know because I ran into serious problems on an undisclosed buying website before.

I think it's very complex, but what you've said seems to make sense to me in a way...

Unfortunately, the assumption that mothers are protective of young is something we can't say for sure; we don't know if it's genetic by mammal, or if it's just what arises due to environment and social situation.

Golda Meir was on to roughly the same thing 40 years ago when she stated "Peace will come only when Arabs love their children more than they hate us"

I think in the this case it's been overly-simplified and directly specific to be argued on with any manner of decency.

Women in Palestine like most of the middle east have the same problems the rest of us do and a few more, Palestine is actually relatively moderate-conservative compared to places like Saudi Arabia, Iran who are ulta-conservative, then theres places like Lebanon and Turkey who are more moderate-liberal oriented.
So I mean we can't really just blame feminism or a lack of feminism for the worlds woes because some countries manage to run themselves adequetly enough and not bomb their neighbours into the stone age. Its like the moronic post where someone suggested that western women fire up the old feminism bandwagon and go blasting into the middle east on some kind of humanitarian crusade.

Sure, provided at the same time I get to kick the crap out of the western press and their portrayal of women and popularisation of bad role models to girls in the media, a lack of politicial representation and a whole host of other things.

But that won't happen either, along with the fact its really not my biological right to go running into someone elses culture and proverbially stomp on the d***s of those concerned.
If they want change, then they will have to do it themselves because anyone throwing in outside interferrance to an existing culture, even if its for the right reasons is never taken well. I mean if you needed a clearer example of that you could look at a whole bunch of ill-educated, backwater morons that unleashed the 'stumbling around Iraq in the name of democracy' campaign...

If they want their children to stop being killed or to enjoy some sense of equality in the community, then they have to stand up and do it. Sure, I can be critical, disagree and suggest improvement of the current situation, but so can anyone and neither can we judge them as being lesser for their current position.
Self rightous asseholes out to change their world to match their perceptions of what it should be get us into most of the disasters we're in now.

And as is, its still not a lot of fun being female in the western world, they pass all kinds of equal oppertunity laws which are ignored at peoples convenience or selfishness for their own ends, caps on wages in some positions traditionally held by women. Same little glass prison which means I have to catch a taxi home from the pub 10minutes walk away or can't go riding my bike or jogging at midnight unless I'm prepared to carry or take friends with me... and I live in a 'good' suburb in an low-crime country!

Ultimately, people and women in the west still have a ways to go as well before they realise that sending their children off to war is a bad idea. Critical assessment of someone elses country, you've probably never lived in is all very easy, even more so when youre not looking at your own backyard.

Hey Lilith, how do you feel about those that like to take their traditions, such as Shira law, which is pretty demeaning to women, to the Western World?

Personally, I never understood trying to make little versions of a country in which one left...

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"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

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Originally posted by Dopey Women don't have that much power in the Arab world right? Does this lead to war? I think so and this is why... The primal instinct of any human (and many non-human) female is to protect her offspring. If women were respected as they are in Western society, no child would ever fight, simply because the mothers would not let them. Also, no father would be able to preach violence to a child, simply because the mother would not let them. This preaching and direct involvement leads to a shorter average life-span obviously, if the females had some power, they would not let this happen. So, in conclusion, feminism ftw Discuss.

I don't agree. I believe more in the Youth Bulge Theory. DISCUSSION BELOW...

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In his fictional book Nineteen-Eighty-Four, George Orwell talks about a state of constant war being used as one of many ways to distract people. War inspires fear and hate among the people of a nation, and gives them a "legitimate" enemy upon whom they can focus this fear and hate. Thus the people are prevented from seeing that their true enemy is in fact their own repressive government. By this theory war is another "opiate of the masses" by which a state controls its people and prevents revolution.

Two Demographic Theories: Malthusian & Youth Bulge
Malthusian

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Malthusian theories see a misproportion of expanding population and scarce food as a source of violent conflict. Youth Bulge theory differs in that it identifies a disproportion between the number of well educated, well fed angry "fighting age" young males and the number of positions available to them in society as a primary source of different forms of social unrest (including war). According to this view, "people beg for food, for positions they shoot".

Youth Bulge

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Samuel Huntington has modified his Clash of Civilizations theory by using youth bulge theory as its foundation: "I don’t think Islam is any more violent than any other religions, and I suspect if you added it all up, more people have been slaughtered by Christians over the centuries than by Muslims. But the key factor is the demographic factor. Generally speaking, the people who go out and kill other people are males between the ages of 16 and 30". According to Heinsohn, who has proposed the theory in its most generalized form, a youth bulge occurs when 30 to 40 percent of the males of a nation belong to the "fighting age" cohorts from 15 to 29 years of age. It will follow periods with average birth rates as high as 4-8 children per woman with a 15-29 year delay. If an average birth rate of 2,1 represents a situation of in which the son will replace the father, the daughter the mother, 4-8 children per mother imply 2-4 sons. Consequently, one father has to leave not 1, but 2 to 4 social positions (jobs) to give all his sons a perspective for life, which is usually hard to achieve. Since respectable positions cannot be increased at the same speed as food, textbooks and vaccines, many "angry young men" find themselves in a situation that tends to escalate their adolescent anger into violence: they are (1) demographically superfluous, (2) might be out of work or stuck in a mean job, and (3) often have no access to a legal sex life before a career can earn them enough to provide for a family. The combination of these stress factors according to Heinsohn[9] usually heads for six different exits: (1) Emigration ("non violent colonization") (2) Violent Crime (3) Rebellion or putsch (4) Civil war and/or revolution (5) Genocide (to take over the positions of the slaughtered) (6) Conquest (violent colonization, frequently including genocide abroad). Religions and ideologies are seen as secondary factors that are being used to legitimate violence, but will not lead to violence by itself if no youth bulge is present. Consequently, youth bulge theorists see both past "Christianist" European colonialism / imperialism and today´s "Islamist" civil unrest / terrorism as results of high birth rates producing youth bulges. Youth Bulge theory has been subjected to statistical analysis by the World Bank, Population Action International, and the Berlin Institute for Population and Development.[13] It has been criticized for promoting racial, gender and age discrimination.

Iranian Situation

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Stubborn, double-digit, unemployment is currently the Islamic Republic’s most acute single economic concern. Providing gainful, even if not equally productive, jobs for millions of job seekers now tops the list of the theocratic oligarchy's unrelenting headaches. The challenge is formidable not only because of unemployment’s debilitating impact on the economy, but also due to its dire political, social, and even cultural consequences for the regime's stability and staying power. While shortages of job opportunities have been a structural phenomenon in Iran for some time, the acceleration in the growth of labor force since the late 1990s has now reached a critical mass – defying all attempted solutions. Unemployment has shown a tendency to fluctuate, and with a strong upward trend, reaching significant proportions. A current population of 63 million gives a labour force of 19 million. About 16 percent of this labour force are unemployed which is about 2.3 million people. Youth unemployment is the highest, 50 percent for the age cohort between 15-24 years. Educated unemployment is also very high, and university level unemployment again is the highest despite the high literacy rate of 93 percent for those aged 6-29. The official figure for child labour in 1992 was 286,000 of which 62 percent are girls. Most child labourers are working in the carpet industry. Estimates and trends in poverty differ, but nevertheless point to significantly high levels. The Management Planning Organization (MPO) estimates absolute poverty to have dropped in the last decade, but to be still high at the level of 20 percent. A rural poverty line of R365,000 per month gives a rural poverty headcount of 21.7 percent, while an urban poverty line of R460,000 gives an urban poverty headcount of 18.7 percent. Inequality in the economy has remained at a high level. The high levels of unemployment and poverty, and low growth are considered to be potentially destabilizing, and therefore constitute priority problems for any management regime. The Third Development Plan now aims to bring down this very high unemployment rate of nearly 16 percent, to a range of 10.5 percent -12.5 percent by the end of the plan period. To lower unemployment down to 10.5 percent will require the generation of approximately 750,000 jobs per year, to match a near equivalent labour supply, compared to a current rate of generation of only 285,000 jobs per year, and a past best of 350,000 jobs. Since the Islamic Revolution, Iran has had a religious police that punishes offenders relentlessly. Jamal Karimi-Rad, in 2006, has vowed to work with other governmental organizations and continue the prosecution of "social vice" or "moral corruption". The Islamic officials use words like "Western" and "un-Islamic" as their talking points to justify such arrests. The Islamic government's obsession with the people's behavior and dress even reached a point when it would employ female religious police who "with a razor took off the lipstick from the lips" of other female citizens. The religious police is extremely disliked by some Iranian teenagers and youths.[citation needed] Video of Iranian village youth explaining how Basijis arrested him while he was hanging out with his friends. Iran's Unemployment Crisis Iran: Coping With The World's Highest Rate Of Brain Drain Ahmadinejad: Wipe Israel off map

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Sharia always struck me as more of a cultural and ethnic influence on religious law and its use has been slightly overused by the press ignoring the fact theres a fair few versions of it, secularist, traditionalist, reformed and salafis.
Its a bit like how the dress codes out of the Qur'an have been interpreted from 'dress modestly' by some people to 'must wear a hijab or burqa'.

So, if theyre willing to obey an ethnic, cultural or social norm then thats simply a matter of choice rather than an enforced decision made for you in most of the moderate countries. Westernised countries with their own ethnic communities in them have their own versions of dress code which are obeyed by and large by the majority as well without a question of wearing anything else. Its just a great deal more subtle and seems innoculous because we're raised around it every day and everyone does it, whereas someone running around in a burqa sticks out like someone wearing a skinned animal and carrying a club.
We're not used to it and therefore we judge it to be something, either a demeaning, degrading or something backward.

I'm not against cultural or religious norms, but I do dislike religious dogma taking away freedom of choice and by and large I really don't like any mainstream religions. The muslims, christians and anyone else that wants to tell someone what to do or what to wear can all go jump off the nearest high building and smear themselves into an organic fertiliser.

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Originally posted by Lilith I think in the this case it's been overly-simplified and directly specific to be argued on with any manner of decency.

I cannot type 150 wpm as I assume you do. Of course it is oversimplified, and I'm sure there are a million other factors, I'm just discussing one. A light went off in my head and I felt like starting a thread

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Originally posted by Lilith And as is, its still not a lot of fun being female in the western world

Well I'm not blind enough to believe women are remotely equal to men in any society. I am sure, however, that in 100 years time if they are lucky enough to have planet to live on, our (western) granddaughters will be almost if not all the way there. I cannot assume the same about Arab women with any optimism.

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Originally posted by Cyrus King i listen to trance becuase it is beautifully composed like a classical piece of music.... but with beats in it...

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Originally posted by Magnetonium I hardly if ever acknowledge sarcasm from a person I dont know because I ran into serious problems on an undisclosed buying website before.

No, more likely we'll all be equal in terms of the fact everything we do will be closely scruitinised by the state for our own 'good' and the middle east will probably be some kind of blasted wasteland devoid of natural resources, ignored and end up like Somalia.
(only 60-70wpm with any accuracy btw )

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r Personally, I never understood trying to make little versions of a country in which one left...

More of a 2nd question and unrelated.
People gravitate towards familiarity, you don't turn off lifes little bum-groove on the couch people are used to living in overnight and in a foreign country sometimes its nice to have a little of what you left behind with you as something of a memory there of where you came from.

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Originally posted by Lilith More of a 2nd question and unrelated. People gravitate towards familiarity, you don't turn off lifes little bum-groove on the couch people are used to living in overnight and in a foreign country sometimes its nice to have a little of what you left behind with you as something of a memory there of where you came from.

Oh I agree, its when they start fucking with the local laws to make things fit to their liking when I start getting pissy

I always enjoy other's cultures, especially their food

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."