Ok, so I'm kind of curious about hate speech legislation in Australia and [parts of] Europe (France and UK in particular). I read some random articles here and there about people being prosecute and imprioned (WTF?) for "hate speech." Luckily, the [US] constitution is pretty clear on freedom of speech so we don't have any of that BS here. No, ofcourse I don't think being racist or bigoted is a good thing and I certainly don't condone it. But lately I've noticed more an more ludicrous "hate speech" cases where people are eigther being fined heavily, but in an increasing number of cases, imprisoned. That's BS. No goverment should have the right to limit free speech. Don't know how you guys feel about it, but to me hate speech legislation isn't terribly different from thought control. One reason why I brought this up is because overtime I've noticed interacting with people from Europe/Australlia how, relatively speaking, fearful they are of something they might say being considered racist/bigoted, or in other words "hate speech." And, as an American, I've noticed how it actually limits their thought, and ability to think critically. And I'm not kidding here folks. Some things that have nothing to with being "hateful" or in no way have any "hateful content" will be considered so by them, and it's pretty ridiculous. This is something I noticed after a while BTW. It's political correctness gone mad (and legislated). There was some old thread Occ gave me a link to a thread on free speech, [EDIT: where some dude was being prosecuted for "Islamophobia: ]. If I remember correctly, he was the only one defending his right to free speech there (which I applaud him for BTW), but it was actually very disappointing to see him being the only one. That one more solid example where the difference in attitudes was even more obvious to me. So I'm curious, what type of "hate speech" legislation do you guys have there in Australlia? Renegade, could you in particular shed some light on this subject? And by that I don't just mean posting a bunch of legislation . No offence, but I've noticed how conditioned some of you guy are, Aussies in particular, or at least the ones I've come across (with the exception of Renegade, he's pretty level headed and rational, which is why I asked you in particular to comment).

BTW, being Muslim, after 9-11, I have to put up with a fair bit of prejudice and bigotry, sometimes on a daily basis (and I've been physically threatened/attacked on multiple occasions). But I find the whole concept of "hate speech" legislation to be utter BS and am totally against it. So don't go about making any silly assumptions. I've dealt with a fair bit of it, so I know exactly how unpleasant it is.

EDIT: Occ, if you could dig up that thread again, that would be neat. I can't seem to find it.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

Last edited by shaolin_Z on Feb-15-2007 at 05:21

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z No offence, but I've noticed how conditioned some of you guy are, Aussies in particular, or at least the ones I've come across (with the exception of Renegade, he's pretty level headed and rational, which is why I asked you in particular to comment).

what do you mean by "conditioned"?

i am unaware of any specific "hate speech" laws in australia. doesnt mean they dont exist of course, but they cant be enforced too often if we never hear about them (such items being one of the media's favourite topics and all).

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quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN what do you mean by "conditioned"?

Like listening to cheese instead of quality house ...

On a more serious note, I think I already stated that in my post:

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z One reason why I brought this up is because overtime I've noticed interacting with people from Europe/Australlia how, relatively speaking, fearful they are of something they might say being considered racist/bigoted, or in other words "hate speech." And, as an American, I've noticed how it actually limits their thought, and ability to think critically.

EDIT: Essentially, it impairs critical thought.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Like listening to cheese instead of quality house ... On a more serious note, I think I already stated that in my post: EDIT: Essentially, it impairs critical thought.

Ok so let me get this straight, Minding your speach in front of others that might get offended is not critical thinking??

quote:

Originally posted by LazFX Ok so let me get this straight, Minding your speach in front of others that might get offended is not critical thinking??

What ?

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z What ?

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z One reason why I brought this up is because overtime I've noticed interacting with people from Europe/Australlia how, relatively speaking, fearful they are of something they might say being considered racist/bigoted, or in other words "hate speech." And, as an American, I've noticed how it actually limits their thought, and ability to think critically.

So if a person minds his or her speach due in part that it might be considered hate speach, then they do not have critical thinking??

quote:

Originally posted by LazFX So if a person minds his or her speach due in part that it might be considered hate speach, then they do not have critical thinking??

Did you even read what I posted ?

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Did you even read what I posted ?

No Z, I never read your posts...

I am just trying to understand this.....

quote:

BTW, being Muslim, after 9-11, I have to put up with a fair bit of prejudice and bigotry, sometimes on a daily basis (and I've been physically threatened/attacked on multiple occasions). But I find the whole concept of "hate speech" legislation to be utter BS and am totally against it. So don't go about making any silly assumptions. I've dealt with a fair bit of it, so I know exactly how unpleasant it is.

The fact that you have encountered hate and bigotry but yet still support the right for the fockwads to be allowed to call you or yell at you due to your race. So lets say, you got jumped and sent to the hospital, and during the ass kicking they were calling you a Rag Head. You would not support them getting the extra HATE CRIME charges, just a simple assault charge(with that they will be out of Jail and pay the small fine) while you were still recovering. Cause you find the whole concept of "hate speech" legislation to be utter BS and you are totally against it? [hypothetical] Cause I know for a fact that if I slapped you in the face and called you a racial name while in the process, the penalty would be stiffer than just slapping you.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z EDIT: Occ, if you could dig up that thread again, that would be neat. I can't seem to find it.

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...ght=free+speech

quote:

The fact that you have encountered hate and bigotry but yet still support the right for the fockwads to be allowed to call you or yell at you due to your race. So lets say, you got jumped and sent to the hospital, and during the ass kicking they were calling you a Rag Head. You would not support them getting the extra HATE CRIME charges, just a simple assault charge(with that they will be out of Jail and pay the small fine) while you were still recovering. Cause you find the whole concept of "hate speech" legislation to be utter BS and you are totally against it? [hypothetical] Cause I know for a fact that if I slapped you in the face and called you a racial name while in the process, the penalty would be stiffer than just slapping you.

So it's ok for some guy to kick your ass and send you to the hospital with the penalty of a fine, but it's not ok for the guy to call you a bad name while he's sending you to the hospital? I think the victim could care less whether it's a hate crime or not. Unless you wanna tell us why someone's life or well being is worth less when their race is considered. Prosecutorial racism no?

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Retro ...

quote:

Originally posted by occrider http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...ght=free+speech So it's ok for some guy to kick your ass and send you to the hospital with the penalty of a fine, but it's not ok for the guy to call you a bad name while he's sending you to the hospital? I think the victim could care less whether it's a hate crime or not. Unless you wanna tell us why someone's life or well being is worth less when their race is considered. Prosecutorial racism no?

I feel that why too occrider, but if that "hate speach" leads to a crime and or an individual is singled out due to his/her race..... then no special circumstance should be considred in prosecution?

the reason I am so upset about this cause there is case going on here in AUstin how a gay friend of mine was followed from a bar and assaulted with her and her girlfriend. The case starts tomorrow and the focking rednecks that did it are using this freedom of speach shit to get off on a lighter sentence...... I guess he has critical thinking.



p.s. I will will be in DC next month for a month..... actually in New Carrolton....please PM with any suggestions for good places to hang and spend a TAB on

I know you really didn't ask about Canada Shao, but it's pretty defined up here...
http://www.media-awareness.ca/engli...ate_a_crime.cfm

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

I think I might of taken this a little off his topic when I started talking on Hate Crimes. Cause I hope he realizes that Free Speach ends when that speach leads to something like a hate crime. Is that correct Shaolin??