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TranceAddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > RFID chip & BigBrother
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shaolin_Z
Hei Hu Quan



Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Austin, Texas, USA: TXTA #102
Thumbs down RFID chip & BigBrother

Holy shit! Do you realize what the implications of this are? I've heard rumors of the RFID chip before and have seen it before in some mainstream news channels but now the BBC too! Fuck! Seems like they're pretty intent on selling the idea to the public. It's good for you in:

1) An emergency situation.
2) To keep all your medical records.
3) IDENTIFYING THE DEAD?!?!
4) If you loose your child, we'll be able to track them down.

The list of reasons given that I've read before all relate to make you being paranoid about security. I forget where it was (some university in England I believe), where some dude heavily involved in the project was all like, "this is just the beggining, imagine what else we could put on this, credit card info, SSN.." blah blah blah. Plus, the goverment will be able to track you ANYWHERE ON THE PLANET and have all your personal information to access throught one chip, the end of privacy.


quote:

Implant chip to identify the dead

The carnage inflicted by bomb attacks in Egypt, London and across Iraq has raised the problem of how the authorities identify people in an emergency situation.

Whether through natural disaster or man-made, the killing of large numbers of people presents a great challenge to the emergency services, who have to identify the victims as quickly as possible.

One aid to identification advocated by an American company is the VeriChip, a small device containing a unique number injected into a person's arm.

During 11 September, some rescue workers, aware of the huge dangers they were facing, took to writing their badge number on their skin, in case they became victims themselves.

Their attempts to ensure their own identity should the worst happen was spotted by New Jersey surgeon Richard Seelig. Five days later, he injected himself with two rice grain-sized chips, containing a unique number which could be used to identify him.

"I wanted to demonstrate its effectiveness as being used as an identifier for people," Dr Seelig told BBC World Service's Analysis programme.

"Also, I wanted to show it could be as comfortable for a person as not having one, so that it wouldn't interfere with that person's daily life."

Losing anonymity

Following the Asian tsunami which struck on Boxing Day 2004, many thousands of bodies could only be identified by DNA testing - a process that, in some cases, took months to complete.

Similarly, following the bomb blasts on the London Underground, the process of identifying some bodies - particularly on the deep-lying Piccadilly Line - became very difficult, with some families upset by the amount of time it took to confirm a relative had died.

VeriChip advocates argue it could help in these circumstances.

Dr Seelig is now vice president for medical applications at VeriChip, which makes the devices - although it is yet to make a profit.

He had been developing the device for more than a year before the 11 September attacks.

The inspiration to develop it arose during his 20 years as a surgeon and the regular delays caused by patients unable to remember important healthcare information.

He saw that the delays could be eliminated by marrying an identifier to link a person with healthcare information and Radio Frequency Identification (RFID).

Dr Seelig see three major uses for the chip, all of which relate to the need for access to a patient's medical records.

One is for individuals who have memory impairments, such as Alzheimer's, or those who are unable to speak, such as those who have suffered a stroke.

It may also be very useful for those with chronic diseases, such as heart disease or epilepsy, who can suffer an attack almost instantaneously. Being able to access a person's medical records in such an event could be life-saving.

And the third category, Dr Seelig said, is those who have sophisticated medical devices such as pacemakers, as the details of these devices are very advanced and difficult for someone who is not technically-minded to recall.

Scanned and known

Others are also taking note of the technology. The US Federal Drug Administration, which scrutinises all drugs and medical devices in the US, has given the chip its approval; officials in Mexico have already used the chip as a way of heightening security in sensitive areas; and the Harvard Medical School in Massachusetts now has several hospitals testing the device.

The emergency room at one hospital has been fitted with readers so that anyone who has the chip can be scanned - but Harvard has not yet decided how much emphasis to put on the chip's use.

As part of the trials, Dr John Halamka, the chief information officer at Harvard, has been fitted with the chip in the back of his arm.

"In a sense I've lost my anonymity," he told Analysis. "Anywhere I go I can be scanned and known."

However, he said he had been convinced by the chip.

"The side effects have been none - the readability of the chip has been good," he added.

"So for my personal goal of being identified in the case of an accident, it does work for me."

Identity theft

Others, however, are not as supportive.

"It's a very scary technology," said Katherine Albrecht, a consumer rights analyst and founder of Caspian, a pressure group which opposes RFID.

Ms Albrecht has been tracking the development of the VeriChip.

"It's very de-humanising," she added.

"I would no longer be known as a living, breathing, spiritual person but become known as a single number that would be emanating from a chip in my flesh... essentially becoming a form of human inventory, rather than a human being."

She also argues that the chip is not secure - every time a reader is passed, the number is tracked, whether the user wishes this or not - and contends that being constantly identifiable is not necessarily a good thing.

"A criminal could scan you surreptitiously, then use that information to access other information about you, and potentially do some identity theft," she said.

"The other thing they could do is that, by scanning that number, it's actually quite a simple matter to capture the number and create your own chip with the same number in it.

"You could simply programme a different chip, put it inside an encapsulated device, and put it in your own arm - and at that point you could pose as the individual whose identity you have chosen to steal."


Source: BBC


___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

Old Post Oct-05-2005 21:26  United States
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Sunsnail
Global Moderator



Registered: Sep 2004
Location:

This sucks... is there anyone here that sides with this idea??

Old Post Oct-05-2005 21:36 
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metalgearsolid
I am a sexist



Registered: Apr 2005
Location: For you neo/

Will this be a public traded company? Because I can see this getting big. I should start investing I will be rich. As long as it does not become mandatory but rather a choice for people than its fine. Its thier life and I won't tell them how to live.

Old Post Oct-05-2005 22:18 
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Fir3start3r
Armin Acolyte



Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada

There are definitely pros and cons.
I'd image the conspiracy theorists and doomsdayers must be having a hay-day with this...


___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

Old Post Oct-05-2005 22:23  Canada
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shaolin_Z
Hei Hu Quan



Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Austin, Texas, USA: TXTA #102

quote:
Originally posted by Fir3start3r
There are definitely pros and cons.
I'd image the conspiracy theorists and doomsdayers must be having a hay-day with this...


You don't need to be a conspiracy theorist to be concerned about RFID chips.


___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

Old Post Oct-06-2005 16:22  United States
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occrider
Traveladdict



Registered: Oct 2000
Location: New York

In order for RFID chips to be effective the power source would have to come within a few ft of the chip. In other words, the government would have to set up an emitter on every street lamp to effectively monitor your movements. If you have a car, it's more likely than not you have an ezpass which already contains an RFID chip.


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Retro ...

Old Post Oct-06-2005 16:27  United States
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shaolin_Z
Hei Hu Quan



Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Austin, Texas, USA: TXTA #102

quote:

Human implants

Implantable RFID chips designed for animal tagging are now being used in humans as well. An early experiment with RFID implants was conducted by British professor of cybernetics Kevin Warwick, who implanted a chip in his arm in 1998. Applied Digital Solutions proposes their chip's "unique under-the-skin format" as a solution to identity fraud, secure building access, computer access, storage of medical records, anti-kidnapping initiatives and a variety of law-enforcement applications. Combined with sensors to monitor body functions, the Digital Angel device could provide monitoring for patients. The Baja Beach Club [5] in Barcelona, Spain uses an implantable Verichip to identify their VIP customers, who in turn use it to pay for drinks [6]. The Mexico City police department has implanted approximately 170 of their police officers with the Verichip, to allow access to police databases and possibly track them in case of kidnapping.


Source: Wikipedia

Hmm..... only a a few feet? I think not.


___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

Old Post Oct-06-2005 19:20  United States
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St_Andrew
I <3 NYC



Registered: May 2003
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

quote:
Originally posted by shaolin_Z
Source: Wikipedia

Hmm..... only a a few feet? I think not.


From the same article:

quote:
Passive RFID tags have no internal power supply. The minute electrical current induced in the antenna by the incoming radio frequency signal provides just enough power for the tag to transmit a response. Due to limited power and cost, the response of a passive RFID tag is brief — typically just an ID number (GUID). Lack of an onboard power supply means that the device can be quite small: commercially available products exist that can be embedded under the skin. As of 2005, the smallest such devices commercially available measured 0.4 mm × 0.4 mm, which is thinner than a sheet of paper; such devices are practically invisible. Passive tags have practical read distances ranging from about 10 mm up to about 6 metres.


although:

quote:
Active RFID tags, on the other hand, have an internal power source, and may have longer range and larger memories than passive tags, as well as the ability to store additional information sent by the transceiver. At present, the smallest active tags are about the size of a coin. Many active tags have practical ranges of tens of metres, and a battery life of up to 10 years.


Guess it's easier to find ppl in roadblocks and so on if they kidnap someone.. don't really know what else they could have meant.

Oh, and I have no idea yet wheather im for or against this, probably against tho... Need more info first tho...

Old Post Oct-06-2005 19:27  Europe
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shaolin_Z
Hei Hu Quan



Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Austin, Texas, USA: TXTA #102

quote:
Originally posted by St_Andrew
From the same article:



although:


Yes, I read that too, BUT, I've seen it benig advertised as a security meausre capable of tracking down kidnapped children, lost pets etc. Which is why I'm highly doubtful of the range only being a few meters.


___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

Last edited by shaolin_Z on Oct-06-2005 at 19:55

Old Post Oct-06-2005 19:30  United States
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shaolin_Z
Hei Hu Quan



Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Austin, Texas, USA: TXTA #102

quote:

Japan: Schoolkids to be tagged with RFID chips
By Jo Best, Special to ZDNet Asia
12/7/2004

Japanese authorities decide tracking is best way to protect kids

The rights and wrongs of RFID-chipping human beings have been debated since the tracking tags reached the technological mainstream. Now, school authorities in the Japanese city of Osaka have decided the benefits outweigh the disadvantages and will now be chipping children in one primary school.

The tags will be read by readers installed in school gates and other key locations to track the kids' movements.

The chips will be put onto kids' schoolbags, name tags or clothing in one Wakayama prefecture school. Denmark's Legoland introduced a similar scheme last month to stop young children going astray.

RFID is more commonly found in supermarket and other retailers' supply chains, however, companies are now seeking more innovative ways to derive value from the tracking technology. US airline Delta recently announced it would be using RFID to track travellers' luggage.


I read an article a few months ago elsewher about them being implanted somewhere on the arm as a VIP pass for certain clubs.

EDIT: Source: ZDNetAsia


___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

Old Post Oct-06-2005 20:05  United States
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St_Andrew
I <3 NYC



Registered: May 2003
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

I still think the idea is that you will track these kids (or whatever you are tracking), when they pass through some kind of check point. So they can't always track you, unless they have "check points" everywhere. In a school, or at legoland, though, that would be possible.

Old Post Oct-06-2005 20:09  Europe
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shaolin_Z
Hei Hu Quan



Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Austin, Texas, USA: TXTA #102

Ok, doing some more research, and I see what you and occ are saying, although I still need to do more research.

quote:

How does an RFID system work?

An RFID system consists of a tag, which is made up of a microchip with an antenna, and an interrogator or reader with an antenna. The reader sends out electromagnetic waves. The tag antenna is tuned to receive these waves. A passive RFID tag draws power from field created by the reader and uses it to power the microchip’s circuits. The chip then modulates the waves that the tag sends back to the reader and the reader converts the new waves into digital data.


Source: RFID Journal "The World's RFID Authority"


___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

Old Post Oct-06-2005 20:18  United States
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