alright. i'm in the market for new cdjs to replace my old cdj-100s'. and one of the main features i'd like the new ones to have is proper seamless looping. so which models have proper useful looping?
i'd like to loop 16 or 32 bars from the intro and possibly from the outro too. and they'd have to be seamless as i'd be using them for mixing. i don't mind spending a little time to set the loop up if that's the only way to get it seamless.
i'm mainly looking at the pioneer cdj-200 and denon dn-s3500 as they both have looping and 0,02% pitch accuracy and aren't expensive as fuck (cdj-1000).

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Beware that the looping on a CDJ800 mk2 is a little bit dodgy - the out point "moves" back by about 2 frames after you've hit the button (i.e. if you hit the loop button perfectly in time it returns to the loop in point perfectly in time but the 2nd and subsequent times it reaches the loop out point, it will be slightly out of time, meaning you have to adjust the out point)... and no, it's not just me being a retard when hitting the button I can do it fine on a mk1 or on a CDJ1000 and others have reported the same problem.

If, as you say, you're willing to take a few seconds to set up the loop then you'll be fine - just set the loop, adjust the outpoint so that it loops back correctly every time and you're away. But it does make on-the-fly looping a little bit tricky (basically you just have to get used to moving the out point back by 2 frames as soon as you've set the loop).

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Stu Cox |

adjusting a 16 or 32 bar loop to get it perfect is going to take a while. a 32 bar loop, 128 beats, is about a minute. at least on the cdj1000mk3 you can save loops to a hot cue so once you get it right you can call as needed.
most players have seamless loop these days, it takes some practice to be able to loop perfectly first go though

The easiest way to get a long loop accurate on Pioneer CDJsis to store the loop in point in CDJ mode, then get near to the loop out point, press pause to go into stutter, find the loop out point as you would with the loop in then just hit loop out... obviously you can't just do this on the fly!

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Stu Cox |

sorry, i meant 16 or 32 beat loop, not bar.

is the looping on the cdj-200 same as the cdj-800? is it possible to create a 32 beat loop on the start of the track and a 32 beat loop on the end of the same track and have it play without any problems and mix into the track and into the next one without any problems?
basically what i'd like to know is which player has better looping the cdj-200 or the dn-s3500. i can't go try them out anywhere as they don't sell them anywhere around here.

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They both kind of "suck" actually.

Even the CDJ-1000's suck.

You can only get the loop so close, as you can only adjust the loop points to within a frame on the CD. So while it's definately possible to create loops you can mix into/out of, you'll likely be making adjustments during the mix constantly to keep it in.

If you want seemless looping with just a single button press, look at this:
http://www.redsound.com/

I've also had great luck using Torq's looping feature.

quote:

Originally posted by Ryan0751 They both kind of "suck" actually. Even the CDJ-1000's suck. You can only get the loop so close, as you can only adjust the loop points to within a frame on the CD. So while it's definately possible to create loops you can mix into/out of, you'll likely be making adjustments during the mix constantly to keep it in. If you want seemless looping with just a single button press, look at this: http://www.redsound.com/ I've also had great luck using Torq's looping feature.

yeah, i've thought about the soundbite xl but i don't think it does what i want really. i think it might bring more hassle as you'd have to mix into the loop and out of the loop. so i find it kinda unnecessarily "difficult". i'd just want simple looping to extend intros and outros of some tracks as some tracks have ridiculously short intros or/and outros. i wonder what is the looping on these cdjs for then if it doesn't work well with mixing tracks.

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Yeah I don't know either... I mean its possible, just not very easy to use on the fly.

I find that Torq kicks ass for that though. One button, and it's nearly perfect in time every time.

quote:

Originally posted by skip yeah, i've thought about the soundbite xl but i don't think it does what i want really. i think it might bring more hassle as you'd have to mix into the loop and out of the loop. so i find it kinda unnecessarily "difficult". i'd just want simple looping to extend intros and outros of some tracks as some tracks have ridiculously short intros or/and outros. i wonder what is the looping on these cdjs for then if it doesn't work well with mixing tracks.

quote:

Originally posted by Ryan0751 Yeah I don't know either... I mean its possible, just not very easy to use on the fly. I find that Torq kicks ass for that though. One button, and it's nearly perfect in time every time.

i've been thinking about getting torq or serato, but i don't have a laptop so that would end up costing me way too much.

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quote:

Originally posted by skip sorry, i meant 16 or 32 beat loop, not bar. is the looping on the cdj-200 same as the cdj-800? is it possible to create a 32 beat loop on the start of the track and a 32 beat loop on the end of the same track and have it play without any problems and mix into the track and into the next one without any problems? basically what i'd like to know is which player has better looping the cdj-200 or the dn-s3500. i can't go try them out anywhere as they don't sell them anywhere around here.

I haven't tested the looping on a CDJ200 particularly carefully but I've never heard any complaints so I expect it's actually better, more along the lines of the quality of the CDJ1000 - i.e. it actually puts the loop points in the right place! But yes, functionally it's the same looping system. The benefit of the 800 is you've got auto beat loop buttons that automatically set the loop to 1 beat, 2 beats, a bar etc, but it's not very accurate so you're better off doing it manually most of the time.

And yeah Ryan, I agree - seeing that the whole thing's played from buffers there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to set cue points as accurately as every sample (44100th of a second!) if they really wanted to let you be accurate, although of course then they'd probably have to have some kind of switchable cue point accuracy mode cos otherwise it'd take years to step through even a short time step by step.

On the Pioneer vs Denon issue, in terms of looping I think you'll find the Denon has got a lot more features and I've heard a lot of people say that they find the looping on a Denon (normally referring to S1000 or S5000, although I gather the looping systems on all of them are very similar - the loops on the S3500 apparently has more features than any of the others) more intuitive (it's not linked to the cue point etc), unlike most of their features.

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Stu Cox |

Maybe Pioneer or Denon should license the RedSound technology and incorporate it into the decks.

I don't think RedSound have got anything particularly revolutionary in their sampler - it's simply the way they've decided to lay it out and the interface they've given it that seems quite popular, wouldn't be too hard to recreate.

I'm actually in the process of building a digital sampler for my uni design project, not that it'll be particularly good lol - I had all sorts of ideas for it but I've left everything to the last minute and now haven't got time to implement loads of them!

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Stu Cox |