I'm thinking about buying a limiter/compressor and have a couple questions. I have worked with limiting and compression in software tools like Audition, Ableton, and Reason, but don't know too much when it comes to hardware. I got hooked on these things when I performed a set for a radio show the other day. They had all of the audio coming out of the mixer going through some compressors and such and it sounded awesome! There were a couple points during my set where I mixed in the lows a little too much, but this thing did a good job at keeping the levels even and making the whole thing sound more dense. So, I gotta get one of these things. I have a couple questions for some of the experts (sorry if these are dumb questions, but again, hardware-based processors):

1. What is the difference between between tube and digital compressors? Is one particularly better than the other?
2. Are there any good presets for DJ-ing in terms of the threshold, radio, and output parameters? I know that I'll have to do a lot of trial-and-error tweaking, but is there a ballpark range I should use?
3. I'm thinking about buying this one: ART Pro VLA Compressor (Model 212) . It seems to have good ratings on a bunch of sites, especially for the price. Any thoughts?

Thanks everyone!!!

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Tbh I probably wouldn't bother buying a hardware compressor just home use/recording demos etc. The compression needed to help things sound crisp will vary depending on the content of the music and so on, so it would be very hard to just set it up so that it sounds good for every mix you do. You're much better off recording your mix to a PC and just processing your mix with a software compressor (and maybe limiter too) in Sound Forge / Wavelab / Audacity / Wavelab as then you can fine-tune it to suit that particular mix.

Radio stations have limiters to stop DJs who don't know how to use their levels properly from sending out peaks that could damage a listener's equipment or would just generally sound bad if it was much louder than the rest of the sound being broadcast. You can keep control of this yourself when you're recording a mix by watching your gains & levels to make sure everything sounds even and you don't clip the signal, then as I say apply some compression afterwards to make it sound professional when you can really concentrate on how it will sound.

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Stu Cox |

quote:

Originally posted by Stu Cox Tbh I probably wouldn't bother buying a hardware compressor just home use/recording demos etc. The compression needed to help things sound crisp will vary depending on the content of the music and so on, so it would be very hard to just set it up so that it sounds good for every mix you do. You're much better off recording your mix to a PC and just processing your mix with a software compressor (and maybe limiter too) in Sound Forge / Wavelab / Audacity / Wavelab as then you can fine-tune it to suit that particular mix. Radio stations have limiters to stop DJs who don't know how to use their levels properly from sending out peaks that could damage a listener's equipment or would just generally sound bad if it was much louder than the rest of the sound being broadcast. You can keep control of this yourself when you're recording a mix by watching your gains & levels to make sure everything sounds even and you don't clip the signal, then as I say apply some compression afterwards to make it sound professional when you can really concentrate on how it will sound.

Stu Cox -

Thanks for the feedback. Is there a particular software-based limiter/copressor that you like to run mixes through after their recorded? Right now, I use Adobe Audition, but I think the "hard limiting" that it does a bit much to apply to an entire set.

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It's good to see a question on this forum that's not "WHAT CDJS SHOOD I BUY GUYS?!"



I'd love to know more about this so please, if aqnyone in the know can help him out it would help me out as well.

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quote:

Originally posted by DJChrisB Stu Cox - Thanks for the feedback. Is there a particular software-based limiter/copressor that you like to run mixes through after their recorded? Right now, I use Adobe Audition, but I think the "hard limiting" that it does a bit much to apply to an entire set.

Well the best ones are the Waves ones (http://www.waves.com)... but seeing that the cheapest bundle with their basic compressor & limiter plugins costs about £300 ($600), that might not be an option! If you are willing to stretch to that, then the Native Power Pack is what you're after (as that'll give you the C1 compressor and L1 limiter, plus things like reverb, tapped delay and 10-band equaliser plugins)

At the low price end of the scale, I've always been impressed by the Sonitus FX range made by Cakewalk: http://www.cakewalk.com/Products/Sonitus/sonitus.asp - their single band compressor is only $39... although they don't have a dedicated limiter plugin, the compressor has got a simple built-in limiter that can be turned on/off (unfortunately it doesn't have any other controls, but if you do want an adjustable limiter you can set up the compressor to act as a limiter by giving it a high compression ratio, hard knee, fast attack and fast release).

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Stu Cox |

Unless you feel you have to, I wouldnt bother using any limiter/compressor. Every tune you play has already been compressed to hell, in the mastering stage. If you start adding even more compression, then the tune will lose what little dynamics it has left.

I can understand in a club setup or even radio station as they have to ensure that some careless DJ dont blow the system, but if you think its goin to make your music sound better, you're wrong...

Oh and in answer to your question...no I'm not

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quote:

Originally posted by DJChrisB I'm thinking about buying a limiter/compressor and have a couple questions. I have worked with limiting and compression in software tools like Audition, Ableton, and Reason, but don't know too much when it comes to hardware. I got hooked on these things when I performed a set for a radio show the other day. They had all of the audio coming out of the mixer going through some compressors and such and it sounded awesome! There were a couple points during my set where I mixed in the lows a little too much, but this thing did a good job at keeping the levels even and making the whole thing sound more dense. So, I gotta get one of these things. I have a couple questions for some of the experts (sorry if these are dumb questions, but again, hardware-based processors): 1. What is the difference between between tube and digital compressors? Is one particularly better than the other? 2. Are there any good presets for DJ-ing in terms of the threshold, radio, and output parameters? I know that I'll have to do a lot of trial-and-error tweaking, but is there a ballpark range I should use? 3. I'm thinking about buying this one: ART Pro VLA Compressor (Model 212) . It seems to have good ratings on a bunch of sites, especially for the price. Any thoughts? Thanks everyone!!!

Chris,

The hardware compressor systems found in most broadcast radio stations are extremely complex and expensive, so don't expect to get anything near what the radio sounded like out of that ART unit (or even high end units 10x the price of that ART). IIRC, some of the compressor systems in use at radio stations are in or close to 5 figures.

The closest you could likely get would be a very nice high end tube compressor, which has a warming tendency when the tubes distort (tube distortion gives the signal even ordered harmonics that make the sound fuller, whereas transistors give harsh odd ordered harmonics when they distort). If you can swing it, look at some units in the $1500-2000 range. Multi-band compression is preferred on a full range signal like a track mixdown or a DJ mix.

As far as settings go, it's trial and error with a lot of questions to people that know how to use compressors for various situations (some settings work GREAT for compressing kick drums while mixing a track down, but sound awful for different instruments or entire mixes).

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quote:

Originally posted by DJMaytag Multi-band compression is preferred on a full range signal like a track mixdown or a DJ mix.

Now I would have said multiband compression wasn't really appropriate for a DJ mix seeing that different tracks will have different frequency content so I think you'd find it really difficult to find settings that work for every track. But yeah, for a track mixdown it's pretty much essential.


And I agree with Mr G-Con that most tracks have already been compressed pretty heavily so applying too much compression will lose all of their dynamic range, so all you really want to use it for is controlling peaks occuring when two tracks in a mix boost the overall level a bit too much. But I think there's a certain amount of truth in the idea that gently compressing the whole mix can make the whole mix sound like it fits together a bit more smoothly - seeing that different tracks are mastered in different ways, introducing a common compression shape can give them some common ground. In any case, getting your levels as accurate as possible will do a hell of a lot more for it than compression ever will (and will in fact make the compression more effective)

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Stu Cox |

I would probably take a trip to the KVR forums etc. there are some pretty good things there.

Cheers
Nem

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well I don't know if you have attenuation metres on that unit but whatever I'll give a few points on how I setup my compressor and limiter for my mixes in Ableton.

my usual chain is something like this:

EQ (Usually waves Q4-8, sometimes helping to compensate lacking mids on the system etc...), TC Native Compressor...set up is about 2:1 ratio, threshold is adjusted so that it hits just at about 0,5 db when an intro of the first track plays (if you know how to keep your gains adjusted you should be fine with it) I usually keep it attenuating this 0.5 db even in the more silent passages just to know the compressor is running..., then I put in the L2 (don't like the sound of 3) and set it on really really tiny attenuation so the limiter doesn't overload itself.

that's about it, hope it makes sense. if you do it well then you end up with a crisp mix that's going on with very good volume and no clipping!

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Thanks everybody for your advice! You saved me a lot of time...and money!

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quote:

Originally posted by G-Con Unless you feel you have to, I wouldnt bother using any limiter/compressor. Every tune you play has already been compressed to hell, in the mastering stage. If you start adding even more compression, then the tune will lose what little dynamics it has left. I can understand in a club setup or even radio station as they have to ensure that some careless DJ dont blow the system, but if you think its goin to make your music sound better, you're wrong... Oh and in answer to your question...no I'm not

even in a radio station, a voice is compressed at least 5+ times by the time it hits the airwaves

even when mastering mixes, use compression sparingly, dynamic range is a good thing, loud parts are actually loud and quiet parts are actually quiet instead of a crushed, flat, piece-o-crap, it'll sound loud on a crap system, on a decent to good system, flat poo

if you want more volume, turn up the knob... or get a better stereo

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Last edited by Tony Morello on Apr-19-2007 at 18:56