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josh4
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Dec 2003
Location: New York City
Michael Moore slams CNN, Wolf Blitzer on live TV



Moore's promised rebuttal:
http://www.michaelmoore.com/sicko/n...ticle_10017.php
quote:
July 10th, 2007 12:19 am

'SiCKO' Truth Squad Sets CNN Straight


DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN: "(Moore says) the United States slipped to number 37 in the world's health care systems. It's true. ... Moore brings a group of patients, including 9/11 workers, to Cuba and marvels at their free treatment and quality of care. But hold on - that WHO list puts Cuba's health care system even lower than the United States, coming in at #39."


THE TRUTH:

  • "But hold on?" 'SiCKO' clearly shows the WHO list, with the United States at number #37, and Cuba at #39. Right up on the screen in big five-foot letters. It's even in the trailer! CNN should have its reporter see his eye doctor. The movie isn't hiding from this fact. Just the opposite.


  • The fact that the healthcare system in an impoverished nation crippled by our decades-old blockade (including medical supplies and drugs) ranks so closely to ours is more an indictment of the American system than the Cuban system.

  • Although Cuba ranks lower overall than the United States, it still has a lower infant mortality rate and longer life span. (see below)

  • And unlike the United States, Cuba offers healthcare to absolutely everyone. In an independent Gallup poll conducted in Cuba, "a near unanimous 96 percent of respondents say that health care in Cuba is accessible to everyone." ("Cubans Show Little Satisfaction with Opportunities and Individual Freedom Rare Independent Survey Finds Large Majorities Are Still Proud of Island's Health Care and Education," January 10, 2007.

    http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/p...latinamericara/

    300.php?nid=&id=&pnt=300&lb=brla)




  • CNN: "Moore asserts that the American health care system spends $7,000 per person on health. Cuba spends $25 dollars per person. Not true. But not too far off. The United States spends $6,096 per person, versus $229 per person in Cuba."


    THE TRUTH:

  • According to our own government – the Department of Health and Human Services' National Health Expenditures Projections – the United States will spend $7,092 per capita on health in 2006 and $7,498 in 2007. (Department of Health and Human Services Center for Medicare and Medicaid Expenditures, National Health Expenditures Projections 2006-2016. http://www.cms.hhs.gov/NationalHeal...ds/proj2006.pdf)

  • As for Cuba – Dr. Gupta and CNN need to watch 'SiCKO' first before commenting on it. 'SiCKO' says Cuba spends $251 per person on health care, not $25, as Gupta reports. And the BBC reports that Cuba's per capita health expenditure is… $251! (Keeping Cuba Healthy, BBC, Aug. 1 2006. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programm...ght/5232628.stm )


  • As Gupta points out, the World Health Organization does calculate Cuba's per capita health expenditure at $229 per person – a lot closer to $251 than $25.



  • CNN: In fact, Americans live just a little bit longer than Cubans on average.


    THE TRUTH:

  • Just the opposite. The 2006 United Nations Human Development Report's human development index states the life expectancy in the United States is 77.5 years. It is 77.6 years in Cuba. (Human Development Report 2006, United Nations Development Programme, 2006 at 283. http://hdr.undp.org/hdr2006/pdfs/re...06-complete.pdf)




  • CNN: The United States ranks highest in patient satisfaction.


    THE TRUTH:

  • True, but even when the WHO took patient satisfaction into account in its comprehensive review of the world's health systems, we still came in at #37. ("World Health Organization Assesses The World's Health Systems," Press Release, WHO/44, June 21, 2000. http://www.who.int/inf-pr-2000/en/pr2000-44.html ).


  • Patients may be satisfied in America, but not everyone gets to be a patient. 47 million are uninsured and are rarely patients - until it's too late. In the rest of the Western world, everyone and anyone can be a patient because everyone is covered. (And don't face exclusions for pre-existing conditions, co-pays, deductibles, and costly monthly premiums).

  • It's not that other countries are unhappy with their health care – for example, "70 to 80 percent of Canadians find their waiting times acceptable." ("Access to health care services in Canada, Waiting times for specialized services (January to December 2005)," Statistics Canada, http://www.statcan.ca/english/freep...-XIE2006002.htm )



  • CNN: Americans have shorter wait times than everyone but Germans when seeking non-emergency elective procedures, like hip replacement, cataract surgery, or knee repair.



    THE TRUTH:

  • This isn't the whole truth. CNN pulled out a statistic about elective procedures. Of the six countries surveyed in that study (United States, Canada, New Zealand, UK, Germany, Australia) only Canada had longer waiting times than America for sick adults waiting to schedule a doctor's appointment for a medical problem. 81% of patients in New Zealand got a same or next-day appointment for a non-routine visit, 71% in Britain, 69% in Germany, 66% in Australia, 47% in the U.S., and 36% in Canada. (The Doc's in, but It'll be AWhile. Catherine Arnst, Business Week. June 22, 2007 http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/jun2007/

    tc20070621_716260_page_2.htm)

  • "Gerard Anderson, a Johns Hopkins health policy professor who has spent his career examining the world's healthcare, said there are delays, but not as many as conservatives state. In Canada, the United Kingdom and France, 'three percent of hospital discharges had delays in treatment,' Anderson told The Miami Herald. 'That's a relatively small number, and they're all elective surgeries, such as hip and knee replacement.' (John Dorschner, "'SiCKO' film is set to spark debate; Reformers are gearing up for 'Sicko,' the first major movie to examine America's often maligned healthcare system," Miami Herald, June 29, 2007.)


  • One way America is able to achieve decent waiting times is that it leaves 47 million people out of the health care system entirely, unlike any other Western country. When you remove 47 million people from the line, your wait should be shorter. So why is the U.S. second to last in wait times?

  • And there are even more Americans who keep themselves out of the system because of cost - in the United States, 24 percent of the population did not get medical care due to cost. That number is 5 percent in Canada, and 3 percent in the UK. (Inequities in Health Care: A Five-Country Survey. Robert Blendon et al, Health Affairs. Exhibit 5. http://content.healthaffairs.org/cg...t/full/21/3/182)



  • CNN: (PAUL KECKLEY-Deloitte Health Care Analyst): "The concept that care is free in France, in Canada, in Cuba - and it's not. Those citizens pay for health services out of taxes. As a proportion of their household income, it's a significant number … (GUPTA): It's true that the French pay higher taxes, and so does nearly every country ahead of the United States on that list."


    THE TRUTH:


  • 'SiCKO' never claims that health care is provided absolutely for free in other countries, without tax contributions from citizens. Former MP Tony Benn reads from the NHS founding pamphlet, which explicitly states that "this is not a charity. You are paying for it mainly as taxpayers." 'SiCKO' also acknowledges that the French are "drowning in taxes." Comparatively, many Americans are drowning in insurance premiums, deductibles, co-pays and medical debt and the resulting threat of bankruptcy – half of all bankruptcies in the United States are triggered by medical bills. (Medical Bills Make up Half of Bankruptcies. Feb. 2005, MSNBC. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6895896/)



  • CNN: "But even higher taxes don't guarantee the coverage everyone wants … (KECKLEY): 15 to 20 percent of the population will purchase services outside the system of care run by the government."


    THE TRUTH:


  • It's not clear what country Keckley is referring to. In the United Kingdom, only 11.5 percent of the population has supplementary insurance, but it doesn't take the place of NHS insurance. Nobody in France buys insurance that replaces government insurance either, although a substantial amount buys some form of complimentary insurance. ( Private health insurance and access to health care in the European Union. Spring 2004. www.euro.who.int:document:Obs:EuroObserver6_1.pdf%3E">http://www.euro.who.int/document/Ob...Observer6_1.pdf)



  • CNN: "But no matter how much Moore fudged the facts, and he did fudge some facts…"



  • This is libel. There is not a single fact that is "fudged" in the film. No one has proven a single fact in the film wrong. We expect CNN to correct their mistakes on the air and to apologize to their viewers.
  • Old Post Jul-10-2007 18:06  United States
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    HardTranceProd
    Supreme tranceaddict



    Registered: Jun 2004
    Location: Washington DC

    I loathe Blitzer but Michael Moore isn't exactly the winner in this debate, either


    ___________________
    "The favorite American pastime is not baseball, it's moral crusades."

    Old Post Jul-10-2007 18:18  United States
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    Shakka
    Supreme tranceaddict



    Registered: Feb 2003
    Location:

    Moore is an easy guy not to like. He makes it easy not to like him.

    Old Post Jul-10-2007 19:02  United States
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    HardTranceProd
    Supreme tranceaddict



    Registered: Jun 2004
    Location: Washington DC

    quote:
    Originally posted by Shakka
    Moore is an easy guy not to like. He makes it easy not to like him.


    ah but that depends on your personality

    It's far easier for me to dislike Wolf Blitzer, since i hate these stuffy scripted white men who weigh every word they say


    ___________________
    "The favorite American pastime is not baseball, it's moral crusades."

    Old Post Jul-10-2007 21:10  United States
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    _Ocean_Drive_
    Supreme tranceaddict



    Registered: Jul 2004
    Location: Iwate

    Repost:

    http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...40&pagenumber=2

    But I thought it was awesome nonetheless!


    ___________________
    quote:
    Originally posted by DJ Mikey Mike
    Social outcasts are often of the opinion that they must have a drink before being able to loosen up with their inhibitions, thus being able to have a good time.

    There's a word that sums up this sort of behaviour, and that word is 'reject.'

    Old Post Jul-10-2007 22:28  Japan
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    Kapedano
    Forza Inter!



    Registered: Apr 2005
    Location: Virginia Beach

    Why is he acting like he knew the future about Iraq, and slamming CNN for not thinking like him. First of all, it takes time to realize if a war is going good or bad. You cant judge a war or be biased in the beginning especially in the news business. Secondly, CNN is not congress or the president, so I do not understand why he is holding them responsible for the war. Its kind of funny to see a liberal station arguing another liberal person.

    I also laughed when Michael Moore mentioned Kucinich. Haha. I think Kucinich is about the only person in the race that believes the same things Moore does.


    ___________________
    Vernato

    Old Post Jul-11-2007 03:41  Albania
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    _Ocean_Drive_
    Supreme tranceaddict



    Registered: Jul 2004
    Location: Iwate

    quote:
    Originally posted by Kapedan
    Why is he acting like he knew the future about Iraq, and slamming CNN for not thinking like him.


    Because he had evidence to support his claims and was frustrated that nobody else was asking the questions that he was.

    I believe his offer of $10k to anyone who can prove one fact wrong in F911, still stands.


    ___________________
    quote:
    Originally posted by DJ Mikey Mike
    Social outcasts are often of the opinion that they must have a drink before being able to loosen up with their inhibitions, thus being able to have a good time.

    There's a word that sums up this sort of behaviour, and that word is 'reject.'

    Old Post Jul-11-2007 09:58  Japan
    Click Here to See the Profile for _Ocean_Drive_ Click here to Send _Ocean_Drive_ a Private Message Add _Ocean_Drive_ to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message

    TranceAddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > Michael Moore slams CNN, Wolf Blitzer on live TV
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