OOOhhh--he said it's not the government's job to bail out speculators! He's only semi-tarded.

rove leaves and our boy goes socialist

Current way things are shaping up, seems to be one of the lesser sins of Emperor Busho.
I don't disagree with Shakka, except that I see it as being not so much the product of morons, but greedy people who knew full well what they where doing and because of what appears to be zero regulation. Made some fast bucks throwing together dodgy securities, a nice mix of prime and sub-prime mortgages so it didn't appear to be too rotten at the core.
Sold them off and got out before the balloon burst and they probably made out like absolute bandits. Most of the finance sector investors hoovering up the securities also probably had a fair idea they where going to pop, just not sure so many of them saw it coming so soon and didn't get to offload them quick enough when the defaults skyrocketed.

Dunno, where is he getting all the dollars for this with 2 conflicts on 2 separate fronts, most of hurricane Katrina's mess still all over the shop, economy taking a severe beating and the euro on a rampage?
If anything I think dabbling in this kind of thing is likely to trigger a bit of another downturn simply out of 'no confidence' in the American markets
Poor old taxpayers are going to feel like a pinate soon...

quote:

Originally posted by Lilith Current way things are shaping up, seems to be one of the lesser sins of Emperor Busho. I don't disagree with Shakka, except that I see it as being not so much the product of morons, but greedy people who knew full well what they where doing and because of what appears to be zero regulation. Made some fast bucks throwing together dodgy securities, a nice mix of prime and sub-prime mortgages so it didn't appear to be too rotten at the core. Sold them off and got out before the balloon burst and they probably made out like absolute bandits. Most of the finance sector investors hoovering up the securities also probably had a fair idea they where going to pop, just not sure so many of them saw it coming so soon and didn't get to offload them quick enough when the defaults skyrocketed. Dunno, where is he getting all the dollars for this with 2 conflicts on 2 separate fronts, most of hurricane Katrina's mess still all over the shop, economy taking a severe beating and the euro on a rampage? If anything I think dabbling in this kind of thing is likely to trigger a bit of another downturn simply out of 'no confidence' in the American markets Poor old taxpayers are going to feel like a pinate soon...

The biggest risk I see now is that Dems probably want some sort of a bail out as well, so if anything this might actually have a chance of getting something done. I'm sitting here trying to figure out why I even bothered to provide W-2s when I got a mortgage.

Oh you know how it is, anything a politician can be seen to be doing to help out the little guys that vote for them is extra love-ins at the polls later on. Doesn't matter if they're Dems, Reps, or independants, all the same shade when it comes to greasing up some votes with some 'green'.

Heck, they don't care where the money comes from, doubt any of them really considered it too much and Joe & Jane Voter looking to pay off the trailer they bought on a sub-prime haven't considered where it's coming from at all!
(Oh they definitely don't give a damn!)

***looks for pigs flying***

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Wait, you mean it's not ok for the party of personal responsiblity and fiscal conservatism to force tax payers to bail out janitors who buy $1,000,000 homes (or more importantly the lenders who made it possible)??? Shocked! Shocked I tell you!

Although I'm still convinced that there's an even bigger elephant in the room ... something to the tune of half a trillion dollars to a trillion by the time it's all over. Oh yea and and all those people that never make it back from their vacation abroad.

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Retro ...

So if I'm to understand you correctly, Bush is essentially keeping the much-needed correction in the market from happening by giving more tax-payer welfare to the bank and lending industries?

On a side-note, the Mrs. and I are still renting because of this whole mess right now. We're waiting for the prices to keep comin' down or level off before we jump in. My sister in-law bought a house with her husband about 2 years ago, and she told me how ridiculous she was being hassled by lenders on these variable rates and 1-yr no-interest loans. She wisely grabbed a fixed rate loan at a terrific rate instead.

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Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 So if I'm to understand you correctly, Bush is essentially keeping the much-needed correction in the market from happening by giving more tax-payer welfare to the bank and lending industries?

I guess it depends on who you listen to. To listen to the moronic permabulls talk you'd think he was going to single-handedly save the home mortgage industry (a train I just don't see how they stop). And certainly reading the papers this morning before hearing him speak, one might jump to the same conclusion. In reality, he has proposed somehow helping 80,000 homeowners who must have good credit but simply cannot make their new adjustable rate payments (i.e. not a very large portion of the low-end credit spectrum when consensus seems to think that 2-3 million subprime borrowers could be in jeopardy). At the end of the day it's probably more politics than anything, but IMHO, any sort of bailout from something that anyone with 2 eyes and the ability to read should've seen coming for years is just bad policy and delves deeply into moral hazard. Next thing you know people will be building homes in New Orl....uh...my bad...on the sides of volcanos.

Bush did say that it's not the job of the government to bail out speculators and people who made bad financial decisions and people who bought a house knowing damn well it was out of their reach (gee, who's left?), and I wholeheartedly agree. In any event, the die has been cast and we'll see how it all pans out. Of course Dems like Obama are saying the plan is not enough (watch out Barrack!), while others like me think the whole notion is absurd. Don't penalize taxpayers for poor decisions made by people lulled into ridiculous risk taking due to massive liquidity and easy credit orchestrated by Alan Greenspan. It just pisses me off.

quote:

On a side-note, the Mrs. and I are still renting because of this whole mess right now. We're waiting for the prices to keep comin' down or level off before we jump in. My sister in-law bought a house with her husband about 2 years ago, and she told me how ridiculous she was being hassled by lenders on these variable rates and 1-yr no-interest loans. She wisely grabbed a fixed rate loan at a terrific rate instead.

I'd keep doing what you're doing. No reason to jump in now when you will probably be able to get a great deal in a year or two. I wish I had done a 30 year fixed when we bought our house, though our rate-reset isn't for a couple more years so I'm optimistic that we'll be ok when all is said and done and that rates will have come down by then (I'm not a believer that the Fed is about to cut rates by any meaningful amount, though I'm concerned that all of the shills out there on Wall Street and around the Beltway may ultimately force Bernanke's hand).

Larry Kudlow is worthless.

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka I'd keep doing what you're doing. No reason to jump in now when you will probably be able to get a great deal in a year or two. I wish I had done a 30 year fixed when we bought our house, though our rate-reset isn't for a couple more years so I'm optimistic that we'll be ok when all is said and done and that rates will have come down by then (I'm not a believer that the Fed is about to cut rates by any meaningful amount, though I'm concerned that all of the shills out there on Wall Street and around the Beltway may ultimately force Bernanke's hand). Larry Kudlow is worthless.

Hunt around the rivals and see if they can transfer the loan over into a fixed rate one for you, or just weather the storm because I'd say after enough of a beating, most everyone isn't going to want anything to do with loans unless they can help it and it'll come down again as consumers go into bunker down and saving mode.

Which would happen under normal circumstances.

In an environment where the government basically rewards folly in the finance sector, well we both know where that ship sails don't we... start bailing!
Plan B for you might also involve getting an evaluation on the house, sell it for a profit, find another place to live and punch out but that's usually going to take awhile to move on a market so it's not exactly a short term solution either. At least if the government goes in for this it might cause another housing boom you could be able to make a bit of money off of it instead of bleeding out from the interest rates.