Hey guys. I was wondering if any of you use a sound engineer or someone in the studio to help you produce?. If not, have you ever attended any types of music school?. If you have gone to school what was it for?. Is there diffrent courses to specificly learn what i want?.

I need help with my productions. Specificly EQing and mastering. but also with how to arrange a song as well. Iv'e made some songs before they were ok but it just takes me too long. i always get too many ideas but they don't all help the song flow the way i want it to. I always think I need to keep adding stuff to make if sound full and and interesting, with constent changes. I always end up doing this with more melodies and it just gets to cluttered. Its kinda fucked cuz i listen to alot of trance and there fairly basic when it comes to the melodies. Like I meen there isn't a whole lot of them but, the songs sound interesting because of background sound textures and fills. This is the part i seem to have the most trouble with. Im thinking about how i can get constent help with this, and what came to mind was school or hiring an engineer. My friend is getting into producing and is gonna work in someones studio along side and engineer. I would work with him but hes on the other side of the world for now.

So as you can see im kinda getting stuck here. It seems to be the same issue ever time, and i usually end up getting sick of the song cuz ive been working on it for too long. I really love trance and i need to be able to produce some amazing tracks. i know i can but i'm gonna need some help.

So what im asking is your advice on what to do. or if you have gona to any type of school how it helped or didn't help. Also I know a lot of you might say i need to do trail and error but im in a bit of a rush. Although i am some what new to producing trance (1year) i do have a decade of experience with other instruments. Im hopeing you guys can help me out. your advice is always appretiated. Thank you

Hello Lowski.

I have noticed you post a lot of threads over the last couple of months asking many questions (often related to eq and mastering). Obviously you are frustrated with your current progress and want to get a lot better a lot quicker. But a year is not a long time to become decent at producing. It takes much longer for most of us. Sure, you will hear about such and such producer who is only 17 and has his own label and two albums topping the beatport charts but these are exceptional people. Many of us take at least 2-3 years minimum to start sounding semi professional and many will take much longer.

You say you are in a hurry. Why are you in a hurry? You can't really speed up the learning process. Just keep practicing, and you'll get there in your own time.

I would suggest some books (which you have probably already asked about) to read. These can help speed up the theory side much quicker. Personally I'd suggest The Dance music manual and a book dedicated to your sequencer if you dont know it well yet. I bought reason 3 power and ableton live power. Both were brilliant for me, especially the reason one. There are also many books on eq and master that can help as well.

Ultimately though, you just need to be patient and keep practicing. When it becomes tiresome take a week or two break. This wont slow you down but actually speed you up in the long run. You learn best when its fun after all...

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Listen to and download all my tracks at www.gregnicot.bandcamp.com

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Originally posted by G-Con Hello Lowski. I have noticed you post a lot of threads over the last couple of months asking many questions (often related to eq and mastering). Obviously you are frustrated with your current progress and want to get a lot better a lot quicker. But a year is not a long time to become decent at producing. It takes much longer for most of us. Sure, you will hear about such and such producer who is only 17 and has his own label and two albums topping the beatport charts but these are exceptional people. Many of us take at least 2-3 years minimum to start sounding semi professional and many will take much longer. You say you are in a hurry. Why are you in a hurry? You can't really speed up the learning process. Just keep practicing, and you'll get there in your own time. I would suggest some books (which you have probably already asked about) to read. These can help speed up the theory side much quicker. Personally I'd suggest The Dance music manual and a book dedicated to your sequencer if you dont know it well yet. I bought reason 3 power and ableton live power. Both were brilliant for me, especially the reason one. There are also many books on eq and master that can help as well. Ultimately though, you just need to be patient and keep practicing. When it becomes tiresome take a week or two break. This wont slow you down but actually speed you up in the long run. You learn best when its fun after all...

Hi G-con, ok maybe saying iv'e only been producing for a year is pushing it, i have had reason for about a year and a half but ive gone at least 6 months were i dont even have a comupter to use, or even a place to use it in. i have had a casio keyboard that i used to make hip hop beats on back in 99-01 until it broke. then i had a 16 channel technics keyboard for a year in 2003 before i had to sell every thing. The technics gave me an idea of how to use midi, but thats about all it could do it was pretty sad.

why am i in a hurry you ask?, this is gonna sound cheesy as fuck but. Life is short and i've seen friends and people around me that had dreams and ambitions that have gone unfullfiled for various reasons. Also shit always seems to happen that gets in the way of me being able to produce music or dj whatever. so while i have the chance now i want to get a lot done. not to mention i turn 26 this year

I see you recomend some books. I read ignite for reason 2.5 but didnt find it very help full. i didn;t even know how to cut and paste and wasnt able to find it in the book. i eventually stumbled across it with hours and hours of fooling around. I might try the the reason 3 power book, but i think i got a fairy good idea of the program. i will for sure pick up a book on EQing and mastering. although my reading comprehension , and patients are pretty bad i guess theres no other way to learn quickly.

After getting a nights sleep thinking things over i find that making background sounds and fills to be the hardest. i never see anyone posting about how to make them, and i dont think theres any tutorials on it. i will post a couple sample of some songs that im talking about and maybe some of you can identify how these sounds are made cuz there definatly not presets, or at least not in reason or any refill i have come across.

anyway thanks for the advice G-con , i will go down to the guitar center hopefully this weekend and grab a book or 2.

Last edited by lowski on Sep-28-2007 at 21:25

Just keep at it is the main advice I would give you, also the more you enjoy what you're making, the better you'll get

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why am i in a hurry you ask?, this is gonna sound cheesy as fuck but. Life is short and i've seen friends and people around me that had dreams and ambitions that have gone unfullfiled for various reasons. Also shit always seems to happen that gets in the way of me being able to produce music or dj whatever. so while i have the chance now i want to get a lot done. not to mention i turn 26 this year

Hey Lowski. How are ya!..

I don't wanna sound like an ass.. I perfectly understand what you're saying there, and I admire You for wanting to fulfill your dreams when it comes to music production. But sometimes things don't work they way you want. Even 1 year of producing is not that much. Maybe if you were doing this 8+ hr's a day like a day job, with someone showing you the most important stuff, so you can learn all the trick and such instead of discovering it for yourself, than you could probably get quite a lot done in that year... Making music in on going learning process. I myself can tell you that 16 years passed since I've been producing, and I do spend more than few hours a week when I can at it. When I was younger, no family, no job, I spent entire days just producing alone or with friends. And after all this time I still learn something new sometimes.. Now I am married, have a job, and producing is my hobby! Plus i spent some time helping young guys like you with their productions and stuff ( got 2 guys that come over once a week for tutoring on various production techniques) and 1 more that I do over the net since he lives too far to come down (Europe). They all wanna know everything and make number one hits. In fact there are thousands of people in your shoes, who make music and wanna hit big, and just make a living out of it. And most of them don't get anywhere with their tunes. This is the reality. Sooner or later they realize that they still need a backup plan - like a normal job, a career, whatever you wanna call it. So I wish You all the best, and just don't get frustrated with music too much, cause that normally leads to withdraw after a while. I've seen that happen to many times. Work hard, not neglecting other things in life, and You may one day be one of the lucky few who make it big in music. There is a lot to learn in this business, and it sometimes takes years before your first tune gets signed. Good luck To You!

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Originally posted by lowski why am i in a hurry you ask?, this is gonna sound cheesy as fuck but. Life is short and i've seen friends and people around me that had dreams and ambitions that have gone unfullfiled for various reasons.

Dude, I hear ya. I've been the exact same way for the last few years. I put a shload on my list: Build/race Formula Vee, Build up a '49 Hudson Commodore, Start building my own custom bikes. Delusions really. Will I do all that? Hell yeah I will, but not in 2 years. I wanted to own a used Elise by mid '08 because I wanted to be young and own it...

Then I realized that age has nothing to do with it. You don't have to shove all this into you early years. Why? because you friends that enjoy it with you will be your age too. You'll enjoy it on the same level.

I'm 23 now, and I'd rather be 28 with an immaculate custom '49 Hudson than a 24 year old with a shabby one. Shoot for producing quality, even if it takes another year.

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Originally posted by lowski concerning backgrounds and fills i never see anyone posting about how to make them, and i dont think theres any tutorials on it.

I actually noticed the same thing. I believe it's worth starting a discussion for.

It does take a few years to really get going. Even with an extensive musical background. I've been playing music, mainly guitar, for well over 25 years now. Switching from rock and metal to EDM, was like starting over again. I struggled with EQing and all that, took way too long for me to comprehend it. I would still like to have my own personal sound engineer. Who wouldn't? If you have the means, professional mixdown and mastering is preferable.

Took forever it seems, to understand how to get good synth and FX sounds, whether it be tweaking presets, or making my own. I had to try a lot of VSTi's to discover which ones worked best for me. Lots of trial and error.

When you say fills, I assume you mean percussion fills. You need to learn a little about what a drummer does. Listen to fills, analyze them, and break them down. I never read any books about percussion, I just listened. Nothing wrong with reading up on the subject, but you really just got to get in there and start doing it yourself.

There's no shortcuts, it's a long road for most of us. That is if you consider a few years a long time.

just practice practice practice. time is goin to make your ears better which will help for eqing and mastering. mastering shouldnt even be important to you right now imo. you should work on eqing and compression and mixing before you think about mastering. it takes time, even though you say life is short and you want to get to it, just be patient and produce. if you are really desperate, you can go to a recording school and they teach you everything about mastering and mixing and that stuff, but you'll have to pay.

Wow thanks guys. Lots of positve advice.

DJDIRTY: Thanks , and no you don't sound like an ass. I understand that i need to be realistic. Ever since i moved to LA i have had tons of free time to produce. Plus since i don't have as many friend here as I did back in Vancouver im not always getting interrupted and neglecting my productions. Also as for making a career out of it, i really don't care that much about that part. Especially since theres no money in it anyway. All i want is to be able to make greats tracks like the producers i admire and look up to, And at best have some DJ's play my some of my stuff?. Also what programs do you teach?, and how does the online tutoring work out?

3F05Q: Yeah so you see where im coming from with the age thing. I have lots of other things i need to accomplish in my life and i feel im a bit behide schedule, but thats a whole other topic that doesnt even have much to do with making music haha. But as for my friends enjoying it with me?. None of them listen to trance and they are all with ecseption to a few at least 5 years older then me and starting familys and shit. so.... Also good call. I think I am gonna start a thread about techniques for FX like acid, and other back ground noises and sounds. Cuz that part i really have no idea about but it seems to be very importend to adding depth to a song.

zodiac9: As with you i started out playing rock guitar back when i was 11-13. Since then i have picked up bass, drums and then keyboards, playing various styles of music through out the years. rock, punk, hip hop, breaks, then trance. But the only instrument i still play is keyboard.

As for getting a personal engineer?. Im gonna look into it. I don't have too much money, which as always seems to be the problem in the way of playing music. But if its phesable i might try it out for a bit to get extra knowledge.

As for the fills i don't meen drum fills, that i have a pretty good understanding of. But more or less FX fills like swooshes but more complex. I cant really discribe it cuz I dont fully understand what it is when im actually hearing it. sounds stupid I know. But its in pretty much every trance song.

hadi ******: yeah im not so much concerned with mastering at this piont cuz i usually get sick of a track before its complete. . But i have learned lots about EQing and compression in this month alone, but i still want to learn more. The thing thats frustrating with EQing is that its not like math , where 2 + 2 = 4. It seems to be too much more complex where theres different factors that play a roll each time. As for a recording school im gonna talk to a freind of mine that went to school. Hes does rock but he seems to know a descent bit. All in all im gonna keep practicing like crazy.


Thanks again for all the advice its much appretiated.

Last edited by lowski on Sep-29-2007 at 01:25

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Originally posted by lowski As for the fills i don't meen drum fills, that i have a pretty good understanding of. But more or less FX fills like swooshes but more complex. I cant really discribe it cuz I dont fully understand what it is when im actually hearing it. sounds stupid I know. But its in pretty much every trance song. hadi ******: yeah im not so much concerned with mastering at this piont cuz i usually get sick of a track before its complete. . But i have learned lots about EQing and compression in this month alone, but i still want to learn more. The thing thats frustrating with EQing is that its not like math , where 2 + 2 = 4. It seems to be too much more complex where theres different factors that play a roll each time. As for a recording school im gonna talk to a freind of mine that went to school. Hes does rock but he seems to know a descent bit. All in all im gonna keep practicing like crazy. Thanks again for all the advice its much appretiated.

Those FX Swooshes are mostly white/pink noise goin through a lowpass filter with various other FX over it. It's all about doing that with treme reverb/delay settings and then bouncing down to audio.

And the eq'ing is probably more like math than you think.. 250-300 will generally always make something muddy.. 2.5-4k will generally always make something cut thru the mix.. 12-15k will generally always add air/brightness.. 80-125 will generally always sound boomy.. 50-62 will generally always make it well.. bassy.

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https://soundcloud.com/ghostea stuff

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Originally posted by mysticalninja Those FX Swooshes are mostly white/pink noise goin through a lowpass filter with various other FX over it. It's all about doing that with treme reverb/delay settings and then bouncing down to audio. And the eq'ing is probably more like math than you think.. 250-300 will generally always make something muddy.. 2.5-4k will generally always make something cut thru the mix.. 12-15k will generally always add air/brightness.. 80-125 will generally always sound boomy.. 50-62 will generally always make it well.. bassy.

White and pink nosies huh. i think the malstrom has thoughs, im gonna start experimenting with it. What is "treme"?. and what is bouncing down to audio? i don;t think its an option in reason is it.

For the EQing I understand what freq effect certian parts i guess i just need to memorize it, but i sadly can't even memorize mutiplication tables hahaha. I think i will start making a chart i can pull up everytime im EQing something.
Thanks