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TranceAddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > State Dept. granted IMMUNITY to Blackwater shooters? Umm, what?
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MisterOpus1
Grumpy Old Fart



Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Kansas City
State Dept. granted IMMUNITY to Blackwater shooters? Umm, what?

Let's leave aside my flabbergasted sentiments of utter disbelief that Condi apparently granted immunity to these Blackwater private contractors caught in a killing spree scandal.

Leave aside for a moment that the Iraqi government is demanding an investigation and has revoked CPA Order 17 which granted security contractors immunity from prosecution in Iraqi courts.

Leave aside the fact that Condi told Congress just last week that she regrets the lack of oversight on Blackwater, while of course failing to mention this gigantic bombshell:

quote:
Immunity Jeopardizes Iraq Probe
Guards' Statements Cannot Be Used in Blackwater Case

By Karen DeYoung
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, October 30, 2007; A01

Potential prosecution of Blackwater guards allegedly involved in the shooting deaths of 17 Iraqi civilians last month may have been compromised because the guards received immunity for statements they made to State Department officials investigating the incident, federal law enforcement officials said yesterday.

FBI agents called in to take over the State Department's investigation two weeks after the Sept. 16 shootings cannot use any information gleaned during questioning of the guards by the department's Bureau of Diplomatic Security, which is charged with supervising security contractors.

Some of the Blackwater guards have subsequently refused to be interviewed by the FBI, citing promises of immunity from State, one law enforcement official said. The restrictions on the FBI's use of their initial statements do not preclude prosecution by the Justice Department using other evidence, the official said, but "they make things a lot more complicated and difficult."

Under State Department contractor rules, Diplomatic Security agents are charged with investigating and reporting on all "use of force" incidents. Although there have been previous Blackwater shootings over the past three years -- none of which resulted in prosecutions -- the Sept. 16 incident was by far the most serious. The Bureau of Diplomatic Security was under pressure to quickly determine what had happened in what soon became a major controversy in Baghdad and Washington.

It is unclear when or by whom the grant of immunity was explained to the guards. Under federal case law applying to government workers, only voluntary answers to questions posed by the employing agency can be used against them in a criminal prosecution. If an employee is ordered to answer under threat of disciplinary action, the resulting statements cannot be used.

"You can't use the fruits of that statement," another law enforcement official said. "It doesn't prevent them from talking [to the FBI], but . . . why run the risk? I think any lawyer would advise against it. "

Diplomatic Security spokesman Brian Leventhal declined to comment on the situation, first reported yesterday by the Associated Press. Anne Tyrrell, a spokeswoman for North Carolina-based Blackwater Worldwide, also declined to comment.

State Department spokesman Sean McCormack referred all questions to the Justice Department. "But if anyone has broken the rules or applicable laws, they should be held to account," McCormack said.

Blackwater chief executive Erik Prince has said the personal security guards, contracted by the State Department from his company to protect U.S. diplomats in Iraq, came under fire in a Baghdad traffic circle and shot only in self-defense. But the Iraqi government, which has conducted its own investigation, concluded that the Blackwater guards fired the only shots in the incident and were completely at fault. A U.S. military investigation also concluded that the shootings were unprovoked.

Amid growing diplomatic tension and congressional criticism, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice asked the FBI to take over the case to avoid an appearance of a conflict of interest between the department's Diplomatic Security agents in Baghdad and the Blackwater personnel they supervise.

Although the FBI maintains an office at the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad, a team of Washington-based agents was dispatched as additional insurance against what one administration official called a possible "taint" on the investigation's objectivity. To ensure a firewall, FBI investigators were barred from reading interviews and reports on the incident gathered by Diplomatic Security agents.

Several of the Blackwater personnel, however, asserted that they had already told their stories, under immunity grants from the State Department, and declined FBI interviews that could be used against them, law enforcement officials said.

The immunity claim rests on what are called "Garrity warnings" and "Kalkines warnings," both named after federal court cases from the 1960s and '70s that recognized the special circumstances of government employees in criminal cases involving their jobs. "The government wears two hats" when it launches internal criminal investigations, one law enforcement official said. The rulings were intended to protect the rights of government employees.

The FBI investigators sent to Baghdad are due to return to Washington early this week and will then turn the information they gathered over to the Justice Department, which will decide whether prosecution is warranted. An earlier case, involving the shooting of a bodyguard of an Iraqi vice president by a Blackwater contractor last Christmas Eve, was referred to Justice months ago, but there has been no prosecution.

Law enforcement officials have said it is unclear whether the contractors, who are immune from Iraqi law under an order promulgated by the U.S. occupation government in 2004, are liable under any U.S. law. The administration has said it opposes a bill passed by the House last month that would place State Department contractors under laws that currently apply only to Pentagon contractors.

Administration officials have said that the Christmas Eve case has languished because of the legal uncertainties.

But in congressional testimony last week, Rice said that the holdup was "not the absence of law . . . it's a question of evidence."

Staff writer Dan Eggen contributed to this report.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...d=moreheadlines



So leaving aside all those points for a moment, how can Condi immunize these contractors from the Iraqi government? Does Condi and the State Dept. have the legal authority to even try pulling this?

And perhaps most importantly, why the fuck would she do that in the first place?


___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

Old Post Oct-30-2007 02:30  United States
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LatinLover
Bad Boy 4 Life



Registered: Oct 2006
Location: Medellin, Colombia/ Miami, FL

Thank god justice is finally prevailing for these poor contractors


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Old Post Oct-30-2007 02:54  United States
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MisterOpus1
Grumpy Old Fart



Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Kansas City

quote:
Originally posted by LatinLover
Thank god justice is finally prevailing for these poor contractors


Umm, perhaps we missed your snark. How is "justice prevailing" for those who don't even have to answer to justice?

And why stop further investigation proceedings via full prosecution?

And why do you believe that private contractors are somehow immune to prosecution when our own fucking military is not?


___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

Old Post Oct-30-2007 03:12  United States
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Krypton
83.798 g/6.022x10^23



Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Texas

quote:
Originally posted by MisterOpus1
Umm, perhaps we missed your snark. How is "justice prevailing" for those who don't even have to answer to justice?

And why stop further investigation proceedings via full prosecution?

And why do you believe that private contractors are somehow immune to prosecution when our own fucking military is not?


I'm suspecting he does this shit on purpose, like a troll..


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Old Post Oct-30-2007 03:47  Korea-Democratic Peoples Republic
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Omega_M
Nostalgia



Registered: Jun 2005
Location: Ether

quote:
Originally posted by LatinLover
Thank god justice is finally prevailing for these poor contractors


troll


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Old Post Oct-30-2007 03:48  India
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MisterOpus1
Grumpy Old Fart



Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Kansas City

quote:
Originally posted by Krypton
I'm suspecting he does this shit on purpose, like a troll..


I know, but apparently even the most ardent of trolls, ones that are thrice banned get to post their asinine bullshit at will.

So let's see if this little troll has anything worthwhile to support his little assertions.


___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

Old Post Oct-30-2007 04:03  United States
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Spacey Orange
still loves trance.



Registered: Jul 2004
Location: California

quote:
Originally posted by LatinLover
Thank god justice is finally prevailing for these poor contractors


lol


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Old Post Oct-30-2007 04:19  United States
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TranceAddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > State Dept. granted IMMUNITY to Blackwater shooters? Umm, what?
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