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Originally posted by JOEBIALEK Life begins at the point of conception. No one can deny that after a human being is conceived it will develop into the very same being as those debating this issue. What astounds me is that those who favor abortion went through an identical development stage as the being they are condemning to death.

so?

what astounds me is ignorant males like yourself telling a woman what she can or cannot do with her own body.

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Originally posted by JOEBIALEK Would these very same people agree that a similiar choice should have been made about their own existence?

stupid stupid stupid comment.

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Originally posted by JOEBIALEK Abortion today is used primarily as a birth control of convenience because people are too self-centered to take precautions.

utterly wrong. i'd like a source if you have one? abortion would be the most invasive and damaging form of "birth control" there is. with so many options these days, i guarantee you women are using it as a last resort.

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Originally posted by JOEBIALEK They prefer their own pleasurable self-indulgence over the care and sanctity of the life they created. What ever happened to taking responsibility for one's actions in this country?

your country is BUILT upon the notion of self pleasure and freedom. are you so surprised by the results? "taking responsibility" - you mean like all the absent fathers?

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Originally posted by JOEBIALEK Is it too much to ask a woman who has conceived to place the child into adoption?

yes, let's FORCE women to have children they do not wish to have. that sounds like a wonderful alternative.

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Originally posted by JOEBIALEK Does the father of the child have a say in this?

no, and why should he? its her body.

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Originally posted by JOEBIALEK And what about the constitution of the United States? Are not all people conceived in this country deserving of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?

right. so your definition of "liberty" and "pursuit of happiness" end at the liberty of a woman to control her own reproduction. hypocrite.

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Originally posted by JOEBIALEK I believe abortion is a crime against humanity and should be outlawed. We need to overturn the Roe v. Wade decision and get back to cherishing life in this country. For a country that murders it's children cannot be far from self destruction.

yeah, well most of the rest of the world believes you are a paternalistic arsehole who should keep your hands to yourself and off women's bodies. I am so very fucking glad i live in a nation that is REALLY the land of the free and home of the brave, instead of a conservative religious state that is OBSESSED with enforcing their unprovable beliefs on everyone else around them.

luckily the right of a woman to control her reproduction over here doesn't rest with one decision like it does in the states. we'll always have the right in australia, and i hope the women are aborting them like its going out of fashion just to piss off indignant and arrogantly paternalistic people like yourself.

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I think it isn't morally correct, but I'm still very against legislation to prevent it. My morality shouldn't affect others, imo

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN dont argue with the yanks nutter, they know best!

Thanks for sharing your opinion, JOE. I will now respond to you sentence-by-sentence in an appropriately inane manner.

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Originally posted by JOEBIALEK Life begins at the point of conception.

No, life begins at the age of 18.

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No one can deny that after a human being is conceived it will develop into the very same being as those debating this issue.

That was neither grammatically legal nor logically cogent, but I'll humor you.

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What astounds me is that those who favor abortion went through an identical development stage as the being they are condemning to death.

You expected that they would have gone through a radically different "development stage"? How is this astounding?

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Would these very same people agree that a similiar choice should have been made about their own existence?

No, but it clearly should have been made about your existence, so I guess there's no one-size-fits-all solution here, is there?

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Abortion today is used primarily as a birth control of convenience because people are too self-centered to take precautions.

Interesting. Why don't you get an abortion, JOE, and then tell me how convenient it is?

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They prefer their own pleasurable self-indulgence over the care and sanctity of the life they created.

What sane person wouldn't?

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What ever happened to taking responsibility for one's actions in this country?

Getting an abortion is taking responsibility for one's actions.

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Is it too much to ask a woman who has conceived to place the child into adoption?

Yes.

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Nine months of discomfort is nothing compared to life in prison for voluntary manslaughter!

Dying unborn is nothing compared to living stupid.

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Does the father of the child have a say in this?

Unfortunately not; I agree that it is a problem that children are allowed to be born when both parents do not approve.

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And what about the constitution of the United States?

No, we shouldn't abort it.

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Are not all people conceived in this country deserving of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?

Yes, beginning at 18.

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I believe abortion is a crime against humanity and should be outlawed.

So basically what you are saying is that it is your opinion that everyone should be forced to abide by your opinion. Charming.

Well, in that case, I'll take the same stance: no one should be allowed to have children without my permission, because I believe unauthorized reproduction is a crime against humanity.

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We need to overturn the Roe v. Wade decision and get back to cherishing life in this country.

We need to overturn the Roe v. Wade decision and prevent women from giving birth without proper authorization and maximize the value of life by decreasing its supply.

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For [sic] a country that murders it's [sic] children cannot be far from self destruction.

A country in which the population pullulates wantonly cannot be far from self destruction.

Shouldn't a human fetus be given the right to life? Why do they charge murderers of pregnant women with two counts of murder for mother and child (like the Scott Peterson case)?

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Originally posted by Krypton Shouldn't a human fetus be given the right to life? Why do they charge murderers of pregnant women with two counts of murder for mother and child (like the Scott Peterson case)?

that will depend on the statute. in new york for instance i believe you cant be charged for murdering an unborn child, but i could be wrong.

no, they should not be given a "right to life". they are cells in a female body, they aren't people.

god, i wouldve thought you'd be the last person to want the government sticking their nose in places they shouldn't be.

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People really think that abortion is the "birth control of convenience"?

Look, there are more abortions than there should be in the United States, that much is true. And we should work on reducing the prevalence of abortion - by reducing poverty, improving education (yes, including sex ed), and improving foster care programs. Your solution of ending abortions would only ensure that more children in this country live without health insurance, without a loving family, and with no chance at a decent education.

You ask if a person living today would choose abortion. Well, if my mother was raped, or I had been pre-natally diagnosed with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, or my mother could barely make rent on welfare payments... then yeah, I'd give it some thought.

It's easy to say that you would never choose abortion from the comfort of our privileged lives, but Roe v. Wade wasn't decided the way it was to make abortion a widespread method of birth control. It was decided the way it was in part because a woman has a right to choose over matters of her own body (by your logic, should a woman be prosecuted for eating poorly while pregnant? for drinking alcohol, even once?), and also because there exist cases in which abortion is unfortunately the best option.

I could say more, but it's getting late.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN no, they should not be given a "right to life". they are cells in a female body, they aren't people. god, i wouldve thought you'd be the last person to want the government sticking their nose in places they shouldn't be.

You could take the position that the fetus is simply an extension of the female body, as opposed to an independent person deserving of constitutional rights.

It's not about government sticking its nose in people's privacy. But if the fetus is classified as a living human, then we can't avoid the problem of equal rights for all. Basically, the conflict boils down to this. What do we classify human fetuses as? Persons or extensions of the female body? From there, we know our solutions, but I doubt we'll get past the first part...

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Originally posted by Krypton You could take the position that the fetus is simply an extension of the female body, as opposed to an independent person deserving of constitutional rights. It's not about government sticking its nose in people's privacy. But if the fetus is classified as a living human, then we can't avoid the problem of equal rights for all. Basically, the conflict boils down to this. What do we classify human fetuses as? Persons or extensions of the female body? From there, we know our solutions, but I doubt we'll get past the first part...

Fetuses are not people - unless Ron Paul gets his way and passes his amendment to the Constitution... which is sacrosanct. Except that it doesn't include the anti-abortion thing. Yet. The Founding Fathers would have wanted it that way, after all. No gay people either. Even though Franklin may have been a bit fruity.

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Originally posted by Krypton What do we classify human fetuses as? Persons or extensions of the female body? From there, we know our solutions, but I doubt we'll get past the first part...

these decisions have already been made, hence the limits on when an abortion can be carried out.

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Originally posted by JOEBIALEK We need to overturn the Roe v. Wade decision and get back to cherishing life in this country. For a country that murders it's children cannot be far from self destruction.

Overturning Roe v. Wade only means it's up to the states to decide whether to legalize abortion. There are a bunch of states that would automatically legalize abortion in their respective states should Roe v. Wade be overturned.

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[11:58] Bas //: fuck he's hot

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Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov You ask if a person living today would choose abortion. Well, if my mother was raped, or I had been pre-natally diagnosed with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, or my mother could barely make rent on welfare payments... then yeah, I'd give it some thought. It's easy to say that you would never choose abortion from the comfort of our privileged lives, but Roe v. Wade wasn't decided the way it was to make abortion a widespread method of birth control. It was decided the way it was in part because a woman has a right to choose over matters of her own body (by your logic, should a woman be prosecuted for eating poorly while pregnant? for drinking alcohol, even once?), and also because there exist cases in which abortion is unfortunately the best option. I could say more, but it's getting late.

totally agree with Mr. Lebezniatnikov.
Just put yourself into a 13 year old girl's place, who was raped and now is pregnant with a child, that would destroy all her life, or how would a woman feel about this living remind of a cruel act over her.

so the only answer is - there supposed to be a choice. her own choice.
but to think, that only a woman is responsable for a birth is wrong too, the father at least got to know about this

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when dreams come true