Excuse me.. but noone has any answeres? Its expected from a capitalist society.... atleast you can vote....

I believe that high oil prices will usher in a new era of public transit infrastructure investment, green technology, and energy reform.

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Originally posted by Krypton I believe that high oil prices will usher in a new era of public transit infrastructure investment, green technology, and energy reform.

I hope you're right.

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Originally posted by CHRles I hope you're right.

We essentially have no choice if oil price inflation continues. Look at Europe and how sophisticated their public transit system is. Over there, people live without cars just fine. You want to travel from Italy to England? Fine, hop on the next train, take the bus, etc. America, as I've argued in a previous thread, has an abysmal public transit system. It's funny because, a lot of people on her disagreed with me...

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Originally posted by Kinezi And all speculative trading in oil forbidden.. If yes, than how you think is the best possible way to discover the price of oil?

I don't even understand your question.

"de listed", that doesn't really work.

The only way you can really "de list" something is to strictly regulate the market for it, like plutonium, cocain, or anthrax.

Yeah, so guess what, I don't think oil should be "de listed" quite yet.

and no it wouldn't be the best possible way to discover the "price of oil". In fact I might say it is the worst possible way to find the price of oil.

But then, if you really want to get into it, oil has no price. It is only ever worth what an individual will pay for it. But now we're getting into some heavy theoretical economics.

Do you want to know more?

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton We essentially have no choice if oil price inflation continues. Look at Europe and how sophisticated their public transit system is. Over there, people live without cars just fine. You want to travel from Italy to England? Fine, hop on the next train, take the bus, etc. America, as I've argued in a previous thread, has an abysmal public transit system. It's funny because, a lot of people on her disagreed with me...

Wait, people think public transit in the US is good?

Oh boy.

A bigger problem is that infrastructure takes years to addapt, the price of oil takes hours or even minutes.

There is going to be a lot of pain adapting to 140 $/barrel oil.

Any city who has the subway crews digging right now is laughing. The rest are going to be up $h!t creek.

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Originally posted by atbell Wait, people think public transit in the US is good? Oh boy.

Yea, Jer and Lez do. But Lez lives in DC, which has a huge transit network...

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Originally posted by atbell I don't even understand your question. "de listed", that doesn't really work. The only way you can really "de list" something is to strictly regulate the market for it, like plutonium, cocain, or anthrax. Yeah, so guess what, I don't think oil should be "de listed" quite yet. and no it wouldn't be the best possible way to discover the "price of oil". In fact I might say it is the worst possible way to find the price of oil. But then, if you really want to get into it, oil has no price. It is only ever worth what an individual will pay for it. But now we're getting into some heavy theoretical economics. Do you want to know more?

Bananna, Apple, Tea is not listed.. neither is the market strictly government regulated like plutonium.

By de-listing is pretty common term, I am surprised you didnt know what it means.. say Microsoft fails to pay annual listing fees to NASDAQ, than it will get -de listed' from the exchange, their wont be any price flash.. all speculative trading pulling the price up pr down of the said company will not happen anymnore..

Oil has has a price. Every commodity has a price. Its just the price discovery mechanism of oil is screwed up. Other way to discover price is by auction.. like it happens in case of tobbacco leafs from columbia, bananas from brazil.. lets get rid of oil in exchanges and set up auction houses by OPEC.. and let govts, refinaries, oil companies directly buy oil from these auction house.. preventing 'speculative' bidding..

Last edited by Kinezi on May-21-2008 at 17:36

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Originally posted by Krypton America, as I've argued in a previous thread, has an abysmal public transit system. It's funny because, a lot of people on her disagreed with me...

Outside of a few large cities public transit in this country is a joke. I tend to agree that low gas prices have prevented adoption of public transit in this country. I know in my city there has been a mass exodus to the suburbs the past several decades and absolutely no effective mass transit system to bring people into the city from there. When gas was $1.05 a gallon nobody gave a fuck about public transit, it wasn't that expensive to drive in and a bus/train/whatever would be a hassle. Now gas is $3.79 and the only public transit we have here are some shitty busses which are expensive, time consuming (few expresses from the suburbs), and have to sit in traffic the same as the cars do.

I know that I personally would love to drive a few miles to a light rail station and take that into the city but there is no light rail here. All we have is a plan to expand I-75 to 5 lanes for 35 miles and really that isn't even going to help that much with traffic delays and will do nothing to take cars off the road and provide a cheaper and faster means of transit. Light rail was put up to a vote here years ago and failed badly, but gas was still cheap then. I hope someone brings back the idea, maybe it would have support now. God knows we need it.

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Originally posted by Krypton I've argued in a previous thread, has an abysmal public transit system. It's funny because, a lot of people on her disagreed with me...

you clearly missed what we were saying in that thread. neither of us said american public transportation is efficient. i fully acknowledge that outside of NY, NJ, Chicago, and a few other cities the transportation systems are shit. we said the american people have molded the transportation systems by the lack of demand and life style choices. cities like tampa don't have good transportation systems because the people haven't demanded a good system in the past and have made lifestyle choices that coveted the car.


as to the initial question, no. oil futures have a legitimate business purpose. the whole intent of commodity futures is so businesses can determined their costs in the future. despite rising prices, businesses can accurately determine their energy costs in advance by purchasing oil futures. the fact that prices are increasing because of speculation doesn't change the fact that companies are limiting their risk of price increases while the contract is open. the whole point is so businesses can lock in a price, that function is still served.

Last edited by jerZ07002 on May-22-2008 at 01:34

Or people could start car pooling. To be honest, I haven't heard anything about that idea since this whole "crisis" got started. My dad works in highway construction and he said that it's pretty apparent no one really cares when you're watching thousands of cars slowly pass through with only 1 person in them.

People in this country think it's their god-given right to live 25 miles from civilization and they need to realize that there's a cost to that sort of selfishness.

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