I want to know about levels in a song.

I know how to write songs im learning piano/keyboard etc I know what a compressor does but.... I need to know how to apply this effect together with leveling etc to pull things through my mix

When i make a song when i mix it down the bass lowers and the melodies get lost and it sounds like its coming out of a pillow

One thing that works for me is run it through ozone izotope and turn the freq exiters up that sound ok but its not best practice

Does anyone have a general guidline how to get a punchy kick and off beat bass but allow for the melodies to also be at an audible level

help??

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dont let your master level peak above -3 or -2 db that leaves room for the mastering. i tend to have the kick and bass the loudest parts of track then add everything around them. compression changes for every track i make on kicks, bass etc so i cant really give you any exact settings on them. but i do layer my kicks so they have a nice punch and smack but also a good sub.

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quote:

Originally posted by sterilis dont let your master level peak above -3 or -2 db that leaves room for the mastering. i tend to have the kick and bass the loudest parts of track then add everything around them. compression changes for every track i make on kicks, bass etc so i cant really give you any exact settings on them. but i do layer my kicks so they have a nice punch and smack but also a good sub.

i dont get this method... by not going all the way your using less of your bit rate... unless you master in the same software as you mix down, and using the same project file in order to not lose any sound... and why do you need room for mastering anyway? you can always use a trim device of some sort to trim down the volume later on...

compression is used to make a tighter volume of a track... some sounds i compress some not as sometimes you want a change in volume... it really comes down to what you want to get...

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quote:

Originally posted by Vortex_SA i dont get this method... by not going all the way your using less of your bit rate... unless you master in the same software as you mix down, and using the same project file in order to not lose any sound... and why do you need room for mastering anyway? you can always use a trim device of some sort to trim down the volume later on... compression is used to make a tighter volume of a track... some sounds i compress some not as sometimes you want a change in volume... it really comes down to what you want to get...

you cant send a track to a label in wav file at 0.0db its stupidity the label always asks for an unmastered wav version so it makes perfect sense to leave room for mastering.

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quote:

Originally posted by sterilis you cant send a track to a label in wav file at 0.0db its stupidity the label always asks for an unmastered wav version so it makes perfect sense to leave room for mastering.

Can't whomever is mastering it, just bring the level down themselves? Its only like one fader, shouldn't be that hard, unless you don't have fingers.

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If you have a track which kick is peaking at 0.0db there isnt gonna be room for the mastering engineer as much

Usually, when u mixdown your track it will have alot of dynamics
like in this picture:
http://www.subtleinc.net/masterscreen.JPG

If you mixdown at 0.0 db with limited etc. your track may look like this, dynamics lost.

http://www.subtleinc.net/masterscreen3.JPG

Even if the mastering engineer is lowering the volume, the dynamics will still be lost, like in this picture:

http://www.subtleinc.net/masterscreen2.JPG

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but if its unmastered and peaks at 0dB they can lower it as far as i see it. nothing lost (as long as they do it analog, as i hope they do).

quote:

Originally posted by Subtle If you have a track which kick is peaking at 0.0db there isnt gonna be room for the mastering engineer as much Usually, when u mixdown your track it will have alot of dynamics like in this picture: http://www.subtleinc.net/masterscreen.JPG If you mixdown at 0.0 db with limited etc. your track may look like this, dynamics lost. http://www.subtleinc.net/masterscreen3.JPG Even if the mastering engineer is lowering the volume, the dynamics will still be lost, like in this picture: http://www.subtleinc.net/masterscreen2.JPG

Wow, thanks a lot for that, im going to start incorporating this into my production. Just never realized why the track felt so bleh after i mastered it.

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quote:

Originally posted by Subtle If you have a track which kick is peaking at 0.0db there isnt gonna be room for the mastering engineer as much Usually, when u mixdown your track it will have alot of dynamics like in this picture: http://www.subtleinc.net/masterscreen.JPG If you mixdown at 0.0 db with limited etc. your track may look like this, dynamics lost. http://www.subtleinc.net/masterscreen3.JPG Even if the mastering engineer is lowering the volume, the dynamics will still be lost, like in this picture: http://www.subtleinc.net/masterscreen2.JPG

...

your making no point here in my opinion... mastering for me is an artistic and crucial step for making a song, compressing and limiting if done right adds great effect on the tune, more thumpness and "Breathing" beat...

also, about that argument with dynamics... it really is pointless (the argument), you lose dynamics when you didn't have so many to begin with... if your track has loads of dynamics range you won't lose that much of it when done right... also another point i felt like mentioning, dynamics in music sense means loudness change of a single instrument, not the whole track, a thing that doesnt happen that often in EDM... i do get the point of leaving dynamics, but lets face it, its dance music and its loud, its supposed to be loud, and if the break down seems ruined by dynamics, just lower the volume on that (the instruments) till you get to a level which wont be affected by the mastering (there is a threshold for limiters and compressors).

anyway, i dont care for the mastering engineer, i do what sounds best for me, and if my track sounds great compressed, eq'ed and limited, than so be it, trust me that if a mastering engineer is a decent one he will know what to do, and if not, than just find a decent one.

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quote:

Originally posted by Subtle If you have a track which kick is peaking at 0.0db there isnt gonna be room for the mastering engineer as much Usually, when u mixdown your track it will have alot of dynamics like in this picture: http://www.subtleinc.net/masterscreen.JPG If you mixdown at 0.0 db with limited etc. your track may look like this, dynamics lost. http://www.subtleinc.net/masterscreen3.JPG Even if the mastering engineer is lowering the volume, the dynamics will still be lost, like in this picture: http://www.subtleinc.net/masterscreen2.JPG

Thanks man I have been mixing it so that it peaks perfectly at 0.0db without clipping and then running through ozone izotope and turning all the dynamics up then limiting it LOL at me eh? shows how much i know.

One more question assuming I want to make a modern electro(y) trance song about 138 bpm with big drums and glitches etc. I would start with the groove beat and bass. Then compress how i like it I think ok thats nice im happy so i go to add say a complex hi hat pattern or a instrument.

Why at this point does my bass drop and the drums lower?

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Processing a highly structured and complex pattern of sensory input as a unified percept of "music" is probably one of the most elaborate features of the human brain.....understanding how music is perceived and how it may elicit intense sensations is far from being understood.

quote:

Originally posted by Sonic_c Thanks man I have been mixing it so that it peaks perfectly at 0.0db without clipping and then running through ozone izotope and turning all the dynamics up then limiting it LOL at me eh? shows how much i know. One more question assuming I want to make a modern electro(y) trance song about 138 bpm with big drums and glitches etc. I would start with the groove beat and bass. Then compress how i like it I think ok thats nice im happy so i go to add say a complex hi hat pattern or a instrument. Why at this point does my bass drop and the drums lower?

cos sounds affect each other, every sound you'll add will affect all the others (and its specially felt with kicks), also keep your highs high-passed so that no frequency clashes will occur...

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