quote:

Originally posted by Spacey Orange are you open with others about your beliefs, do you avoid the topic altogether or do you fake a belief out of social pressure? typically i avoid it but when but when push comes to shove, i explain my position.

Yeah, I let people believe what they want as long as it makes them happy and they're not hurting others, but that doesn't mean I'll spare them the obvious if it needs to be done...

If I'm having dinner at the grandmother's, I say "Amen" with a smirk.

That's about as nice as I get.

Mormon's bring out the contempt in me though, I can't help myself.

I'll be goddamned if a Mormon saves my soul.

edit_
I don't force my views on anyone

___________________
Wave is to particle as zero is to one as bagpipes are to modem noises.

Last edited by {b.s.e.} on Oct-19-2008 at 17:58

quote:

Originally posted by Spacey Orange are you open with others about your beliefs, do you avoid the topic altogether or do you fake a belief out of social pressure? typically i avoid it but when but when push comes to shove, i explain my position.

I'm not an atheist or agnostic but pretty much do the same. I avoid any discussion about religion whatsoever because most of my fellow atheist are just plain ignorant, bigoted and condescending... and I don't believe in pushing my beliefs on others, unlike them.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

In the UK it's probably more the opposite, if you're religious you're gonna get looked at funny if you admit it! Tony Blair had religious beliefs but he kept it as quiet as he could while PM (another MP who was very (like Opus Dei "very") Catholic was ridiculed in the press)

In immigrant communities it's a lot more open with the Sheiks, Hindus and Muslims from the Asian subcontinent and with the Christians from the Afro-Caribbean communities, but in "mainstream" society it's not really looked on that favourably and something that people tend to keep to themselves.

So yes, in the UK, people are very open about not believing in God(s), and less open if they do believe in God(s)...

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley In the UK it's probably more the opposite, if you're religious you're gonna get looked at funny if you admit it! Tony Blair had religious beliefs but he kept it as quiet as he could while PM (another MP who was very (like Opus Dei "very") Catholic was ridiculed in the press) In immigrant communities it's a lot more open with the Sheiks, Hindus and Muslims from the Asian subcontinent and with the Christians from the Afro-Caribbean communities, but in "mainstream" society it's not really looked on that favourably and something that people tend to keep to themselves. So yes, in the UK, people are very open about not believing in God(s), and less open if they do believe in God(s)...

You folk have the benefit of a thousand years of collective and cultured history/civilisation.

People still use 'z' as a substitute for 's' over here. What can we expect?

___________________
Wave is to particle as zero is to one as bagpipes are to modem noises.

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley In the UK it's probably more the opposite, if you're religious you're gonna get looked at funny if you admit it! Tony Blair had religious beliefs but he kept it as quiet as he could while PM (another MP who was very (like Opus Dei "very") Catholic was ridiculed in the press) In immigrant communities it's a lot more open with the Sheiks, Hindus and Muslims from the Asian subcontinent and with the Christians from the Afro-Caribbean communities, but in "mainstream" society it's not really looked on that favourably and something that people tend to keep to themselves. So yes, in the UK, people are very open about not believing in God(s), and less open if they do believe in God(s)...

So if you're white and believe in God (or religion), it's considered weird but not if you're a minority?

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z So if you're white and believe in God (or religion), it's considered weird but not if you're a minority?

I think you could relate that to 'out-of-sight out-of-mind'. The roots of Eastern religion are a bit stronger, or have remained strong through time. I'm not generalising, I hope, but I don't think Muslims are as open to interpretation or criticism.

I'm not excusing pandering, or condescending tolerance, but just some food for thought.

___________________
Wave is to particle as zero is to one as bagpipes are to modem noises.

quote:

Originally posted by {b.s.e.} I think you could relate that to 'out-of-sight out-of-mind'. The roots of Eastern religion are a bit stronger, or have remained strong through time. I'm not generalising, I hope, but I don't think Muslims are as open to interpretation or criticism. I'm not excusing pandering, or condescending tolerance, but just some food for thought.

No, I actually agree with you on that one, Muslims not being very receptive of interpretation or criticism. However, at the same time I'd like to point out I've honestly never seen any actual criticism of Islam itself... not much anyways. The problem is if that criticism is laden with bigotry and preconceived notions, it's not going to be received well no matter who the group is. That goes for any group universally. And very few people in any group actually are receptive to criticism.

To be honest, I don't consider Christianity to be a Western religion at all. The way it exists in the West, yeah sure. It's a Roman / Greek religion. The only religions that are ever really criticized in the West is Christianity and Catholicism. But, much of the criticism is of the people who claim to practice it and not the actual religions themselves again.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z So if you're white and believe in God (or religion), it's considered weird but not if you're a minority?

Don't think skin pigment has anything to do with the religiousness of an individual, however, immigrants who came to this country (who, yes, tend to have different coloured skin) did so from countries where religion is still pretty intense. British people have had religion taken out of them and their society since the Reformation, so for about half a millennium! But later arrivals (from the 1950s onwards) to the UK simply haven't had that kind of "religious conditioning". So the "native" population is a hell of a lot less religious than immigrant communities (including from 2004 onwards the very latest immigrants from Eastern Europe who are fairly religious).

Anyway, my point was only that it was more likely for people from immigrant communities to be religious compared to people whose ancestry ties are rooted in Britain.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z But, much of the criticism is of the people who claim to practice it and not the actual religions themselves again.

I think if religion were merely adhered to by people rather than used by people, religion would rarely be criticised

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Don't think skin pigment has anything to do with the religiousness of an individual, however, immigrants who came to this country (who, yes, tend to have different coloured skin) did so from countries where religion is still pretty intense. British people have had religion taken out of them and their society since the Reformation, so for about half a millennium! But later arrivals (from the 1950s onwards) to the UK simply haven't had that kind of "religious conditioning". So the "native" population is a hell of a lot less religious than immigrant communities (including from 2004 onwards the very latest immigrants from Eastern Europe who are fairly religious). Anyway, my point was only that it was more likely for people from immigrant communities to be religious compared to people whose ancestry ties are rooted in Britain.

I know and understand that, my question was... are you treated with even more bias and disrespect if you're religious and white... and not in the closet about it, as opposed to not.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller