quote:

Originally posted by ClearWater I dunno if I'm at the point where I can just say I've made a decent enough premix or if I need to keep working at it.

If you're not getting that full sounding "final" mix you're looking for, then I think you know you don't have a "decent enough premix".

I'm not a fan of the term "premix" here. It sounds like you want someone else to take some responsibility for the final sound of your song. That you want them to make it fuller, fatter, clearer. I get the sense you're feeling a bit frustrated and you'd like to spend some money on an expensive mastering engineer to help you out.

Maybe they can help you out, if they're focussed more on explaining to you what you need to improve than on mastering your song and getting you out the door.

I'd recommend doing a lot of referencing against your favourite songs - why exactly does your song sound tinny? Most trance songs have intros where there are just kick and percussive elements playing, or just kick, bass and percs. Mute the lead/pad elements in your song and reference against your favourite songs in the kick/bass region - does this part of your mix sound tinny in comparison? Why exactly? Because of the kick or bass, or both?

You could try doing full recreations of some of your favourite songs. It's difficult, but it's something you'll get better at with practice. And you'll learn a lot about misconceptions you may have about what's really going on, about how these sounds are put together to create a fantastic sounding mix.

premix=mixdown

What are you using to hear your tracks? Headphones? Monitors?

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phattening up sounds is one of the hardest things to master and takes trial and error particular on soft synths.

Try things like adding another oscillator at different octave, even different wave form. Maybe layering another synth. EQ'ing can help. Also unison or some soft of phasing can help. Could pan instrument to the left and add delay with short ms to the right.

One of the things that helped me was when creating bass lines, create both a mid bass (usually your lead bass line) and a sub bass. doesn't have to follow the same pattern and can be almost unnoticable until you turn it off.

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your final mix should sound as good as possible on the main bus WITHOUT ANY main bus processing. if your main mix does not sound satisfactory you need to go back to the drawingboard. relying on "mastering" the phatten things up is a very bad strategy.

If you're not happy with your main mix your not ready for mastering PERIOD!

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Thanks for the replies! Did a little work after asking the question and yes it seems that layering the sounds at different octaves is the ticket. Using monitors to do my mixing