First, Obama decided to protect the Bush administration from their crimes, and telecom evesdroppers got away, too. Now, its CIA's turn.

Fucking despicable. It only encourages for that kind of shit happening again, knowing full well that they can get away with it. Everything that has happened before hasn't even been properly condemned.

I think I am going to go and watch that Obama Deception video ... reading more and more of this Obama shit pushes me back to the Alex Jones camp. Ridiculous.

quote:

April 17, 2009 The Associated Press WASHINGTON (Apr 17, 2009) President Barack Obama said yesterday that CIA officials who used harsh interrogation tactics during the Bush administration will not be prosecuted. The government released four memos in which Bush-era lawyers approved in often graphic detail the tough interrogation methods used against 28 terror suspects. Tactics range from waterboarding -- simulated drowning -- to keeping suspects naked and withholding food. Even as they exposed new details of the interrogation program, Obama and Attorney General Eric Holder offered the first definitive assurance that those CIA officials are in the clear, as long as their actions were in line with the legal advice at the time. Obama said the country must protect the identity of CIA contractors and employees "as vigilantly as they protect our security." "We have been through a dark and painful chapter in our history," the president said. "But at a time of great challenges and disturbing disunity, nothing will be gained by spending our time and energy laying blame for the past."

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Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

Dude change your tampon.

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium First, Obama decided to protect the Bush administration from their crimes, and telecom evesdroppers got away, too. Now, its CIA's turn. Fucking despicable. It only encourages for that kind of shit happening again, knowing full well that they can get away with it. Everything that has happened before hasn't even been properly condemned. I think I am going to go and watch that Obama Deception video ... reading more and more of this Obama shit pushes me back to the Alex Jones camp. Ridiculous.

Obama has to do this otherwise it will be difficult to recruit qualified people to do these jobs. The consequences to recruiting government employees if these prosecutions were allowed would be devastating because these people were subordinates following orders of their commanders, based on legal advice given by their legal counsel (the DOJ). In private industry, people can reasonably rely on advice from counsel to give some immunity for their actions (not total, but it's a defense).

quote:

Originally posted by jerZ07002 Obama has to do this otherwise it will be difficult to recruit qualified people to do these jobs. The consequences to recruiting government employees if these prosecutions were allowed would be devastating because these people were subordinates following orders of their commanders, based on legal advice given by their legal counsel (the DOJ). In private industry, people can reasonably rely on advice from counsel to give some immunity for their actions (not total, but it's a defense).

There are 300 million Americans to choose from. I'm sure there are enough qualified persons to find amongst them ...

I am not talking about the subordinates here. I am talking about the people who GAVE those orders. They haven't been prosecuted for crimes against America and democracy. Its like Bush administration purposedly drove the country into the ground, knowing full well that the next president would be unable to deal with the people who took part in this giant debacle ...

The way I look at it is that Obama and Bush are the same team. Obama is just continuing the process. Bush started the bailouts, you know. We've yet to see how well that is going to go - it seems, for example, that GM will go bankrupt after all.

And trying to deal with Iran, giving in to them - how despicable.

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Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

Yeah, we should totally blame GM's financial ineptitude on Obama.

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Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov Yeah, we should totally blame GM's financial ineptitude on Obama.

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Originally posted by Magnetonium The way I look at it is that Obama and Bush are the same team. Obama is just continuing the process. Bush started the bailouts, you know. We've yet to see how well that is going to go - it seems, for example, that GM will go bankrupt after all.

i.e. WASTE of money. Failed strategy that was started by Bush and embraced by Obama.

___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium And trying to deal with Iran, giving in to them - how despicable.

Dont worry about Iran. Since us Americans are arrogant and sorry for everthing we have done in the past "says Obama". Israel has a real set of balls unlike the new America which is being filled with fucking pussies. Im starting to feel French minute by minute.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/ne...icle6115903.ece

Sorry its off topic I had too.

It looks like I am not the only one who is upset. United Nations is on my side for once. Protection of human rights and democracy - aren't those some of the core American principles? Such things cannot be brushed under the carpet so easily. Obama's indifference towards these things is extremely alarming.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8006597.stm

quote:

CIA torture exemption 'illegal' US President Barack Obama's decision not to prosecute CIA agents who used torture tactics is a violation of international law, a UN expert says. The UN special rapporteur on torture, Manfred Nowak, says the US is bound under the UN Convention against Torture to prosecute those who engage in it. Mr Obama released four "torture memos" outlining harsh interrogation methods sanctioned by the Bush administration. Mr Nowak has called for an independent review and compensation for victims. "The United States, like all other states that are part of the UN convention against torture, is committed to conducting criminal investigations of torture and to bringing all persons against whom there is sound evidence to court," Mr Nowak told the Austrian daily Der Standard. The memos revealed by Mr Obama approved techniques including simulated drowning, week-long sleep deprivation, forced nudity, and the use of painful positions. Torture trials Mr Obama on Thursday said he would not prosecute under anti-torture laws CIA personnel who relied in good faith on Bush administration legal opinions issued after the 11 September attacks. Mr Nowak - who is due to travel to Washington to meet with officials - said that could be a mitigating factor, but does not absolve those involved. "The fact that you carried out an order doesn't relieve you of your responsibility," he was quoted as saying by AP news agency. Mr Nowak, an Austrian law professor, said US courts could still try those suspected of carrying out torture, as Mr Obama has not sought an amnesty law for affected CIA personnel. He called for an investigation by an independent commission before suspects were tried and said it was important that all victims receive compensation. Human rights groups have criticised President Obama's decision to protect CIA interrogators, saying charges were necessary to prevent future abuses and hold people accountable. President Obama banned the use of the controversial interrogation techniques in his first week in office.

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Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

[Sleep walking] * bump * "What was that?" [Continues sleepwalking]

^^ Who is exactly does that represent?

Answer: Guild ridden suburban white America [and to be fair, including minorities who try hard to be part of that "class" and / or desperate for their acceptance] voting in a black dude as a feeble attempt to make up for their "collective guilt" and go back to sleep to realities obvious to the rest of the globe. The corrupt and megalomaniacal modus operandi of the US government climaxed to an obvious and undeniable extreme with the last administration, so much so that if one even had two braincells functioning, it was a little hard to miss. Being a disingenuous, self centered, selfish, scared, weak, hypocritical bunch faking some kind of moral superiority over anyone else... who's only remaining social function is to go in debt consuming garbage they don't need, such unpleasant bumps are easily ignored. I mean, c'mon, thing HAVE to be different now that big old bad "whitey" and they WASPS are gone from Washington right? The dumb Texan hick is gone. Plus, being black is totally rad these days... and to have at least one black / gay friend to have the appearance of being progressive... how could a president so cool be a total jack ass?!?! Impossible!

[Continues sleepwalking]

Mag, expect more bumps along the way and most if not all of them to be ignored. It is really amusing though to see apologists and loyal subjects of the emperor to make up all sort of ridiculous excuses.

[Edit] Typos.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

Last edited by shaolin_Z on Apr-20-2009 at 16:48

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Mag, expect more bumps along the way and most if not all of them to be ignored. It is really amusing though to see apologists and loyal subjects of the emperor to make up all sort of ridiculous excuses.

I'm not even an obama supporter. if your comment was directed at me, you clearly don't understand the purpose of immunity. Obama didn't give them immunity because he endorsed the illegal activities of the CIA operatives. Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly lacks a fundamental understanding of leadership and management. There is a whole set of negative consequences to obama's ability to effectively lead executive branch employees (CIA) if he allows other executive branch employees (DOJ) to prosecute the activities of subordinates of the first mentioned executive branch (CIA) who were just following order of their superiors on the advice of the potential prosecutors (the DOJ). CIA employees aren't lawyers, and they can rely on the advice of their lawyer (the DOJ).

The issue may be easier to understand using a common example. This would be similar to a cop who is directing traffic giving you a ticket for running a red light after the cop waved you through the red light. That doesn't seem fair, now does it?

Last edited by jerZ07002 on Apr-20-2009 at 17:02

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 I'm not even an obama supporter. if your comment was directed at me, you clearly don't understand the purpose of immunity.

It wasn't dude .

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z It wasn't dude .

my bad - since i was the only one who really posted a somewhat detailed response i thought it was.